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Why so much love for Butler and Magloire?
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Raptorsss wrote: View PostAs i said, they are fine as one year veteran rentals, but the fact that they have a significant role with the Raptors shows how weak this team is. Butler is at best a 3rd string small forward (he split-back up duties with the rookie Aminu, behind Ryan Gomes (yikes!) in LAC, and barely saw the floor in chicago and was behind kyle korver on the depth chart, which is the equivalent of playing behind jason kapono.
Basically, I figured going into the season that the idea was for JJ to play 3/4 of the minutes and Butler to share minutes with Forbes as the back-up 3.
Also, Magloire shouldn't be playing, really. The centre spot was to be Amir/Gray with Bargs and Davis getting the odd chance to guard opposing 5's. It's great that Casey likes playing his veterans on a young team, but I want to see Forbes and Alabi get minutes, even at the cost of winning games.
To me Forbes is in an unoffical battle with Weems for the back-up 2 next year and we need to see if Alabi can be our 3rd string centre next year. If Casey doesn't think they can play in the NBA, BC should cut them and find equivalent players who Casey can use, since its important that this team have both a young centre and a 2-3 guard who can be a part of this team next year.
This year, Casey seems more focused on winning than evaluating the talent. When winning this year is secondary to building a team for next year, where we feel we'll begin to have a competitive team we can build from.
This is what our team should look like next year.
1.Calderon,Bayless,Carter (or equivalent veteran)
2.Derozan, (Weems or Forbes, or someone else), and our new draft pick.
3. JJ, draft pick, Kleiza (with each getting around 10 minutes per game)
4. Bargnani, Davis, Amir, Kleiza
5. Amir, Val, (one of Alabi, Gray, another young centre).
Magloire as your token Torontonian in a suit.Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Jan 4, 2012, 02:11 PM.
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Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View PostMy thoughts exactly. This is rebuilding and at least they are not taking too much time from the young players. New post please!
Look, the Raptors brought in three veterans this year: Carter, Butler and Magloire. Carter who very well might be, certainly offensively, the best of the three doesn't get to play very much since there are two clear cut, younger players who are better than him. What he provides is experience, stability, mentoring for a young Bayless and insurance when one of the other two point-guards go down.
Due to injuries, Kleiza and Gray respectively, Butler and Magloire are playing 10 minutes a game which is fine, except they are playing an extra 9 and 4 minutes that if earned, should go to JJ (5 additional) and Forbes (4 minutes) and 4 minutes to Alabi. So, if JJ and the others can't earn those extra minutes then this young rebuilding team has some holes that need fixing, Butler and Magloire certainly haven't earned those extra minutes, because they both have been brutal on offense.-"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
-"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”
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It's tough to agree with you Raptorsss. Like we said all last season, there was no accountability, which was leading to a sense of entitlement with our young players. Look. If ED and JJ want more minutes, they have to beat out the competition and earn it. Then they'll have to fight to keep it. I think this is a good thing.Welp, that sucked.
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Raptorsss wrote: View Post*sigh* the whole point of the thread is that they are taking time from younger players and you don't rebuild with veterans, you bring in veterans to mentor the younger players.
Look, the Raptors brought in three veterans this year: Carter, Butler and Magloire. Carter who very well might be, certainly offensively, the best of the three doesn't get to play very much since there are two clear cut, younger players who are better than him. What he provides is experience, stability, mentoring for a young Bayless and insurance when one of the other two point-guards go down.
Due to injuries, Kleiza and Gray respectively, Butler and Magloire are playing 10 minutes a game which is fine, except they are playing an extra 9 and 4 minutes that if earned, should go to JJ (5 additional) and Forbes (4 minutes) and 4 minutes to Alabi. So, if JJ and the others can't earn those extra minutes then this young rebuilding team has some holes that need fixing, Butler and Magloire certainly haven't earned those extra minutes, because they both have been brutal on offense.
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c_bcm wrote: View PostIt's tough to agree with you Raptorsss. Like we said all last season, there was no accountability, which was leading to a sense of entitlement with our young players. Look. If ED and JJ want more minutes, they have to beat out the competition and earn it. Then they'll have to fight to keep it. I think this is a good thing.
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Stahmenah_Vybz wrote: View PostMy thoughts exactly. This is rebuilding and at least they are not taking too much time from the young players. New post please!c_bcm wrote: View PostIt's tough to agree with you Raptorsss. Like we said all last season, there was no accountability, which was leading to a sense of entitlement with our young players. Look. If ED and JJ want more minutes, they have to beat out the competition and earn it. Then they'll have to fight to keep it. I think this is a good thing.
I'm worried that Forbes and Alabi are dead weight after these first 5 games.-"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
-"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostI think they have "earned" those minutes from Casey's perspective, because they are playing the game the way he is demanding it be played. It appears to me that JJ has lost some minutes because he's been benched a few times, after making completely boneheaded plays. I believe this is all part of the learning/mentoring process, whereby the young player get punished if they don't do what Casey wants them to, by watching less skilled, older veterans take their minutes, who are mentoring by example how the game should be played. If JJ (or any other young player you're referring to) where meeting Casey's expectations, I think you'd see them getting their full natural allotment of minutes - and the hope is that by learning from the veterans, they will earn back those minutes they are losing at the moment.
I see those minutes as an example, of how far away we are from getting where we want to be. Since, Forbes and Alabi haven't earned any minutes are they dead weight?-"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
-"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”
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Raptorsss wrote: View PostExcellent! Excellent! post you basically wrote, more susinctly the whole idea of my thread. As I said, I believe JJ and Forbes have shown that some, (or all) of their minutes should be given to Butler. The hope is that there is a gradual trend of JJ and maybe Forbes, to earn those 9 extra minutes given too Butler.
I see those minutes as an example, of how far away we are from getting where we want to be. Since, Forbes and Alabi haven't earned any minutes are they dead weight?
However if the Raps start losing a tone of games, and there is no hope in sight for the playoffs.. I can see a lot more minutes for the guys who we need to develop and watch like Alabi, Forbes, Davis and Bayless, and less time for the veterans like Magloire, Carter and Butler.
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Raptorsss wrote: View PostAs i said, they are fine as one year veteran rentals, but the fact that they have a significant role with the Raptors shows how weak this team is. Butler is at best a 3rd string small forward (he split-back up duties with the rookie Aminu, behind Ryan Gomes (yikes!) in LAC, and barely saw the floor in chicago and was behind kyle korver on the depth chart, which is the equivalent of playing behind jason kapono.
Basically, I figured going into the season that the idea was for JJ to play 3/4 of the minutes and Butler to share minutes with Forbes as the back-up 3.
Also, Magloire shouldn't be playing, really. The centre spot was to be Amir/Gray with Bargs and Davis getting the odd chance to guard opposing 5's. It's great that Casey likes playing his veterans on a young team, but I want to see Forbes and Alabi get minutes, even at the cost of winning games.
To me Forbes is in an unoffical battle with Weems for the back-up 2 next year and we need to see if Alabi can be our 3rd string centre next year. If Casey doesn't think they can play in the NBA, BC should cut them and find equivalent players who Casey can use, since its important that this team have both a young centre and a 2-3 guard who can be a part of this team next year.
This year, Casey seems more focused on winning than evaluating the talent. When winning this year is secondary to building a team for next year, where we feel we'll begin to have a competitive team we can build from.
This is what our team should look like next year.
1.Calderon,Bayless,Carter (or equivalent veteran)
2.Derozan, (Weems or Forbes, or someone else), and our new draft pick.
3. JJ, draft pick, Kleiza (with each getting around 10 minutes per game)
4. Bargnani, Davis, Amir, Kleiza
5. Amir, Val, (one of Alabi, Gray, another young centre).
Magloire as your token Torontonian in a suit.
BTW, small point, but what you feel should be the team next year has 17 (2 over the limit) players on it and it's way too early in this development/evaluation year to assume even half of them will be here next year.
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p00ka wrote: View PostDude, what you really seem to be saying is that the way Casey's handling the stated goals doesn't fit what you would do, or what you thought would transpire with this/that player. I can't speak to where you got some of these understandings of what was going to transpire this year with playing time at the 3/4/5 or what will be the battle for backup 2 next year, but so far it seems Casey is doing exactly what he said he would do this year.
BTW, small point, but what you feel should be the team next year has 17 (2 over the limit) players on it and it's way too early in this development/evaluation year to assume even half of them will be here next year.-"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
-"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”
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So why was Davis losing minutes? Magloire out playing him? Sounds more like Magloire 'out efforting' him and Davis was being held accountable for his play.
Raptors head coach Dwane Casey didn’t like what he saw out of Ed Davis in recent games against New York and Orlando and let the second-year power forward know about it.
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Casey said Davis was not running hard enough and that’s why he pulled him aside to watch video on Wednesday morning.
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SandmanFan wrote: View PostSo why was Davis losing minutes? Magloire out playing him? Sounds more like Magloire 'out efforting' him and Davis was being held accountable for his play.
At the bottom if THIS ARTICLE
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SandmanFan wrote: View PostSo why was Davis losing minutes? Magloire out playing him? Sounds more like Magloire 'out efforting' him and Davis was being held accountable for his play.
At the bottom if THIS ARTICLE
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