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The Raptors 2nd Unit & The Case For Bargnani As A 6th Man
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Craiger wrote: View PostHe's been treated unfairly? He has led the most privileged career of any Toronto Raptor that has ever worn the uniform. Always given the benifit of the doubt ......
That being said, I have to disagree when people dismiss last season (the first with Casey) as a bad season by Bargnani. Taking into account the time needed (after an injury), and the fact that it was a recurring event, I'd say AB had a decent season. For the most part, Bargnani was more then a 13 game anomaly - or AB13.
Craiger wrote: View PostFirst his style of play no longer fits what this team is doing. Thats just simple.
As to his style of play, Raptors - with the insertion of Jose - have slowed down the pace of their games. When Lowry was starting, that pace did not gel with the talent on this team. Including Andrea.
Craiger wrote: View PostBargnani becoming the hero 6th man like Jason Terry or Jamal Crawford is nothing but another hope based theory based on his 'potential'.
Although I'm pretty much resigned to the belief that Andrea will be run out of Toronto (sooner, rather then later), I question what Raps will have to deal with, in terms of players coming back.
As well, I continue to believe that Toronto is not a destination of choice for free agents. No F/A agent signing (to Toronto) has proven different. NONE. As such I think the odds of Casey bringing out Bargnani's "potential" as a good contributor to this team - even as a 6th man - are greater then the chances of landing a Star talent in the Free Agent market.
As to his salary, wtf do we care about that. Rogers has deep pockets (Hopefully Bell agrees). Plus, having Cap room has done us no good. Fact is, teams with high payrolls, have an easier time exchanging players.
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As I have said in a number of other posts, this team is winning because of changes made.
1) Jose is starting
2) Lowry is passing better - coming off the Bench
3) Bench - 2nd in the League (over this stretch)
4) Team defense has picked up - simply because players have done it as a TEAM. Still, Raps are not as good as last season - even when AB was playing.
5) During the Jose stretch, Raptors have been No. 1 in Pts out of the paint
That latter point brings me to one of the weaknesses with this team - albeit injuries have played a strong part - is the play of our Front Court. Toronto is ranked 23rd in Points in the Paint differential.
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball.../4/diffeff/6-1
Ed Davis & Amir may be holding their own, but they are not the priority reasons why this new season is excelling. The above 5 reasons are why Raptors have improved. In the end, Amir is a Bench player, as is Ed. For Davis, he hasn't begun to get true Opponent focus. That will be the real test.
Should Raptors trade Bargnani, they will need to pick up another PF to START. One who can handle real Bigs - as Davis is too small for that chore.
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My opinion is nail him to the bench. Give him a few minutes and if he misses a defensive assignment, pull his ass off the court. He will soon learn that he has to play with the eye of the tiger if he wants to play for the Raptors. We know he can score but with his length, he should be dominating the boards. I would not play him if he does not get 8 boards in 15 minutes of playing time. There is no reason he can't. Simple..... box out and tear it down. Outlet the ball and get your ass down the floor. Hit the basket and get back on defense and repeat.
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SuperRaptor wrote: View PostWhether we like it or not this scenario of bargnani coming off the bench is extremely probable, I for one hope that it is successful as this will help the team and maximize his trade value should we go that route.
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Puffer wrote: View Post++1
AB needs to be in a situation where he doesn't have to worry about defence. So he needs a team with a good defensive center, a good defensive SF, a team that is mostly good at running back on D and that needs an offensive lift.
Why should Andrea continue to get coddled? Don't you think his teammates would resent this special guy? The guy isn't even efficient!
He should be treated the same as everyone else....he needs to at least try to play defence and rebound or sit and watch Acy take his minutes.
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SuperRaptor wrote: View PostQuincy Acy will be in the D-League within 2-4 weeks, you can bank on it. He is a 6'7 225lb PF, that can't shoot a jump shot, and is prone to fouling too much, No thanks.There's math, and everything else is debatable.
@clericalbeats
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RobertArchibald wrote: View PostWould rather have a 6'7" PF with no jump shot than a 7' PF that can't rebound...or make jump shots...or play team D...or pass...or help in any capacity whatsoever.
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T.Dot wrote: View PostWell thats a rather dumb statement to make. He can do all those things...but not in the way we or the team want him to. You guys are talking out of your asses like Andrea can't play. The thing is some of you fans always assume but you never know. He will be a great 6th man whether you like it or not.@Chr1st1anL
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Lets just get things straight Andrea struggled at the start of the season career lows in fact, he usually shoots a lot better than that easily racking up double figures in a short time frame. Bargnani is a shooter and all shooters can go through a streak of struggling with their shot and the best way to come out of it is keep shooting, problem is Bargnani especially this year takes way too many 3s.Bargnani is at his best when he takes the short range shots its automatic because honestly no player can guard that.
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I think people need to distinguish between short term and long term objectives. In the short term, it is likely that the Raptors would probably perform best with a big rotation of Johnson, Davis and Bargnani, with JV getting rookie minutes in rookie situations. Objectively, a Bargnani/Johnson pairing is probably the second best big duo available to the Raptors right now.
I am a strong supporter of JV, and strongly endorse accelerating his development. But realistically, a rookie C is going to take his lumps and create challenges for his big partner. JV is a "-" player partnered with any of the other bigs.
Whichever combination keeps Gray off the floor seems like an improvement to me.
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I would not be stunned if Bargnani came back as a starter. The pattern for the past 5 years has been to do whatever it takes to make him happy. However if he is coming off the bench is Bargnani going to be able to adjust? Most 6th men can get hot quickly. Guys like Crawford and Terry don't need a lot of time to get warm. Harden and Ginobili don't just shoot the ball but can warm up by getting to the rim themselves or be playmakers for others on their team.
Bargnani might surprise us, but if he remains cold off the bench then the coach may try and put him in the starting line up again so that he gets warmer quicker which then negates the whole idea of Bargnani as a 6th man.
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Nilanka wrote: View PostEven as a 6th man, Bargnani's inability to rebound, rotate, and communicate on defense would hurt this team. He'd just hurt us less than he did as a starter. This does not qualify as a "solution".
It is always much easier to make one person a scape goat, but I do not think the raptors problems are as simple as: "trade bargnani and we will become a good team".
I believe we will be a better team once he gets healthy and is playing 24+ min. a game. That being said, I would be open to trading him if a trade presents itself in which the team gets better, because we are receiving some talent in return."Defense wins championships."
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