Player Position Debate

[Apollo]

I am of the school that whatever position the team management says the player plays, that's the player's position but lately I've being seeing more than one person argue this idea is not correct so I feel I need clarity on this. What do you feel decides a person's position? Is it size? Height? Skills? Management? Or a combination of them all?

If a guy plays center, then how can you say he's not a center? His team is calling him a center. What makes him not a center? Is there a rule book somewhere that I'm not aware of that say if a player is 6'8" you cannot call him a guard or a center?

[MattyG-Ray]

It is whatever position you can guard, that simple. If your best at guarding centers, then you are a center. If you are best at guarding shooting guards you are a shooting guard.

[Prime]

Nowadays most people can play multiple positions so in reality, his position is little more than a title on paper.

Just like you pointed out in your post, it's also getting increasingly difficult to classify players based on just height or skillset. For example, do you start Chuck Hayes at SF, PF, or C?

Personally I'd start him on the bench but that's just me

[Apollo]

It is whatever position you can guard, that simple. If your best at guarding centers, then you are a center. If you are best at guarding shooting guards you are a shooting guard.

So how do you classify guys like LeBron James or Magic Johnson?

[Buddahfan]

So how do you classify guys like LeBron James or Magic Johnson?

Their position is: Franchise Player

[Apollo]

That's a "role".

[MattyG-Ray]

So how do you classify guys like LeBron James or Magic Johnson?

I don't want to make it sound like you can only have one position. If Magic can guard every position on the floor well, then he can play every position on the floor. At each position he would be able to exploit his defender in a different way, obviously using his size against guards, and his quickness against large forwards at centers.

If you want to label someone as player by giving them a position, then I think you should give them whatever position they guard most frequently. I really don't see why it matters though. Bottom line is go with what works. No two players are exactly alike, so what is most important is finding players who play well together at both ends of the floor. Obviously if you have a SF like Lebron or Hedo, who are both capable of being a primary ball handler and initiating an offense, then you don't need or want traditional like PG like Steve Nash, since both guys need the ball in their hands to be effective.

That is a big reason why The Raps are in trouble. Colangelo has put together a team full of players who are best when they have the ball in their hands. Marco, Hedo, Jose, Jarret, it is to much of the same thing, all very talented offensive players, but you need guys that compliment each other on both ends of the floor. Jose, Marco, and Hedo don't compliment each other on either end of the court.

[Dave]

Players should be rated by how effective they are at each individual position. Their natural position should be the position where they are most effective. If they are good options at other spots then they are versatile players who are able to play multiple positions.

A player's effectiveness should be judged by his performance offensively + defensively + rebounding relative to his position.

For example, Thaddeus Young. Is Young more effective as a small forward or a power forward? Which position is he more of a matchup problem? Is he more effective using his size in the post against small forwards or using his quickness + driving ability against bigger players? Does he play better man-to-man defense at the three or the four and does he play better team defense as a three or a four? And how good is his rebounding relative to opposing players at his position?

Finally, overall, at which spot does the individual player make his largest individual contribution to the team? And at which position (SF or PF) is the team as a collective (in Young's case, better in a big lineup with him at the three or in a running lineup with him as a four) more effective?

Those would be the questions I would ask when determining what a player's best position is ... and for Thaddeus Young, I believe the answer is power forward and that he is better in all categories as a four except for rebounding.

[Dave]

Here is my take on the Raptors Players

Calderon = PG
Jack = PG
Belinelli = PG/SG (a lot more potential as a PG, below average SG)
DeRozan = SG (with potential to play SF minutes down the road)
Weems = SG/SF (more effective as a two but solid as a three also)
Wright = SG/SF (comparably effective at either spot)
Turkoglu = SF (could play some PF if paired with a versatile combo forward which the Raptors do not have)
Evans = PF/C (comparably effective at either spot)
Bosh = PF/C (comparably effective at either spot)
Amir = PF/C (a lot more effective as a power forward)
Bargnani = C
Rasho = C

[Apollo]

If you want to label someone as player by giving them a position, then I think you should give them whatever position they guard most frequently. I really don't see why it matters though. Bottom line is go with what works.

It matters because people around here feel it matters. I am routinely hearing stuff like "that guy plays center but he's not really a center".

Players should be rated by how effective they are at each individual position. Their natural position should be the position where they are most effective. If they are good options at other spots then they are versatile players who are able to play multiple positions.

A player's effectiveness should be judged by his performance offensively + defensively + rebounding relative to his position.

Ok, but things in the NBA aren't static like that. The game constantly changes and what's the norm now may not be the norm later. The wing positions are clear cut but when you get into the territory of big men and PGs things start to get cloudy. A prototypical center is not the norm anymore and it seems to me like in many discussions I keep hearing "well, he isn't really a center he just plays center". This keeps bringing me back to the point of "why should personal opinion come into it at all"? If I see a woman and she's wearing a maroon shirt, it still a maroon shirt regardless if I think its red. If I see a player playing center, he's a center regardless if I feel he doesn't fit some sort of ideal I may have in my mind of what a center should be.

[Dave]

Ok, but things in the NBA aren't static like that. The game constantly changes and what's the norm now may not be the norm later. The wing positions are clear cut but when you get into the territory of big men and PGs things start to get cloudy. A prototypical center is not the norm anymore and it seems to me like in many discussions I keep hearing "well, he isn't really a center he just plays center". This keeps bringing me back to the point of "why should personal opinion come into it at all"? If I see a woman and she's wearing a maroon shirt, it still a maroon shirt regardless if I think its red. If I see a player playing center, he's a center regardless if I feel he doesn't fit some sort of ideal I may have in my mind of what a center should be.

How so? I don't think any of the changes have been that dramatic.

[Apollo]

Well at the 3, 4 and 5 we've seen an abundance of face up players flowing into all positions to the point that post up players are a minority. Where has the hook shot gone? I think all around we're seeing the rough and tough, back to the bucket ball in the paint fading and a more finesse, European style of play seeping in all over the league. I can think back to the past and remember no time where there has been such an abundance of face up bigs with skill sets sometimes resembling a wing player. At the team level we have a bunch of teams running high tempo systems. Full court seems to be growing. Half court ruled the 90's.

[Dave]

Well at the 3, 4 and 5 we've seen an abundance of face up players flowing into all positions to the point that post up players are a minority. Where has the hook shot gone? I think all around we're seeing the rough and tough, back to the bucket ball in the paint fading and a more finesse, European style of play seeping in all over the league. I can think back to the past and remember no time where there has been such an abundance of face up bigs with skill sets sometimes resembling a wing player. At the team level we have a bunch of teams running high tempo systems. Full court seems to be growing. Half court ruled the 90's.

I think one should judge a player relative to his competition.

[Prime]

It matters because people around here feel it matters. I am routinely hearing stuff like "that guy plays center but he's not really a center".

But do you feel that it matters?

Judging from this entire thread you seem to have the opinion that it doesn't.

[MattyG-Ray]

It matters because people around here feel it matters. I am routinely hearing stuff like "that guy plays center but he's not really a center".

I assume you are referring to Bargs? The comments are irrelevant. What matters is can Bargs guard the center position? Right now the jury is still out on that one, sometimes he looks good, other nights he looks not so good. The one thing we know for sure is that he needs to get stronger. Right now I would say Bargs is better at guarding the Power Forward position than he is at guarding the Center position. Does that mean he is better suited to playing the Power Forward position? Right now I would say yes, but that doesn't mean he can't become a great center. I would compare him to Pau Gasol, Gasol defends the PF spot right now, but he is equally as good when defending the Center position. Bargs can get to that point, where he is really neither a PF or C, but rather both equally.