Cavs Talk: Wiggin on the table

[JawsGT]

What does it mean to "make whole"? I keep seeing it again and again.

It refers to the opt-outs I believe. Specifically Wade and Haslem, who left alot of money on the table so Riley could tweak the roster and try and keep the big3. Basically, give them the same amount of money they left on the table, or more, but over more years. No one cares about Bosh cause of the max offer Houston gave him.

[Apollo]

Wade opted out so now the poster is saying the Heat essentially need to give him that money on the next deal.

Really they don't and we don't have all the details on why Wade opted out or if he even wants to stay in Miami now.

[JawsGT]

Wait a second... so player A gets the same stats as player B, with less minutes AND more efficiently... and player B is somehow better? I don't remember much hype for Gallinari, but its irrelevant to actual production. I think they liked him for his stretch big abilities more than anything.

Doesn't matter. Wiggins is at a totally different level than either Gallinari or Waiters or Klay Thompson (the kid they were going to trade Love for).

So if Minnesota can accept Klay Thompson for Love type deal, then surely you can sell them something LESS THAN WIGGINS to get him.

Minnesota really has no choice unless another team offers them something better.... which they WONT, because they need to make sure Love commits to that team and signs an extension. Whats going to happen if Minnesota does not take Clevelands low ball offer, is that Love goes free during FA next year, Minnesota gets nothing in return, and Love finds a team like the Raptors who make the playoffs and have cap space to sign him.

They do have time though. They don't really need to make a decision this offseason. They can wait til the season starts and maybe someone gets desperate and increases their offer. It's a gamble either way, but no way I trade Love for Waiters, Bennett and Thompson with Wiggins there. They would have to include multiple 1st round picks and probably 2nd rounders as well. Maybe MEM 2015 1st, Miami 2015 1st, a future 1st of their own + a 2nd rounder and I may think about it. Just consider what Love brings to the table. And LBJ has never been in a lineup with a dominant PG and big man. This is just about the ideal scenario for LBJ IMO.

[enlightenment]

They do have time though. They don't really need to make a decision this offseason. They can wait til the season starts and maybe someone gets desperate and increases their offer. It's a gamble either way, but no way I trade Love for Waiters, Bennett and Thompson with Wiggins there. They would have to include multiple 1st round picks and probably 2nd rounders as well. Maybe MEM 2015 1st, Miami 2015 1st, a future 1st of their own + a 2nd rounder and I may think about it. Just consider what Love brings to the table. And LBJ has never been in a lineup with a dominant PG and big man. This is just about the ideal scenario for LBJ IMO.

Through them ALL the picks. Because if you have a chance to have Lebron - Love - Irving - Wiggins, on one team, you don't need no stinking rookies.

[The Great One]

Wait a second... so player A gets the same stats as player B, with less minutes AND more efficiently... and player B is somehow better? I don't remember much hype for Gallinari, but its irrelevant to actual production. I think they liked him for his stretch big abilities more than anything.

\

Holy shit. I didn't say Gallinari is better than Waiters(if you ask me, i think he is). I'm not even talking about stats or production.

All i'm saying is, Gallinari at that time was a highly touted young player. There was a lot of hype surrounding Danilo specially after his 2nd/3rd year in NY, he was arguably the Knicks best player. Alot of ppl thinks he's going to be real good in a couple of years. He's the reason why people considered it a good trade for Denver.

Now, if the Wolves trade Love to the Cavs and the main piece coming back is Waiters. Damn. Unlike when Gallinari got traded to Denver, you already know what type of player Waiters is going to be. He's nothing special.

[JawsGT]

Through them ALL the picks. Because if you have a chance to have Lebron - Love - Irving - Wiggins, on one team, you don't need no stinking rookies.

Yes, but the only good pick of the bunch is maybe MIA's 2015 first, depending on what happens with them. None of CLE own picks will be attractive. MEM pick probably not gonna be great either. I'm sure CLE would love to keep Wiggins in this scenario, but I still don't think I make that deal if I'm MIN. BOS can put together a better package IMO if picks are gonna be the deal breaker, cause neither Waiters, Bennett or Thompson are really that attractive.

[bryan colangelo]

What does it mean to "make whole"? I keep seeing it again and again.

What Apollo said.

They technically do not have to make them 'whole', but imagine if, on good faith, your employer convinced you to opt out a $40 million dollars you were guaranteed to be paid, under the assurance that you would essentially make more or the equivalent over a longer stretch of time, for 'the good of the team'.

Even though everyone knows that Wade is worth probably $10 M a year, the Heat have to overpay him if they want him to stay.

But imagine if they let him walk. Every agent and player will know that Riley essentially fucked Wade and Udonis over by convincing him to give up millions of dollars they owed them. It's straight-up bad business and would be a massive blow to Riley's reputation.

You can debate about Wade's role and responsibility for his decision and how Riley technically doesn't owe Wade anything but the world doesn't work like that. What superstar would want to sign with Miami if Riley fucked over their adopted son like that?

Truth is, now Riley is HOPING that Wade wants to leave for another team, for less money. The optics of Wade trying to resign with Miami and Riley low-balling him would be awful.

[BobLoblaw]

Clearly Love can't get paid and play for Cleveland without the T Wolves playing facilitators. They can play hard ball and win.

Love launches the Cavs over the top without Wiggins in the mix. That's all Cleveland should be caring about. There will be other suitors to Love, therefore other teams competing to entice Minny to play ball. It's not just about Love going where he wants to go if big money is also a want of his.

Bennett, Waiters, Thompson, Miami's pick (and maybe add some other picks if necessary) is a big offer. I doubt we'll see bigger offers than that from other teams.

Time will show. I could easily see them keeping Wiggins and getting Love.

[BobLoblaw]

Yes, but the only good pick of the bunch is maybe MIA's 2015 first, depending on what happens with them. None of CLE own picks will be attractive. MEM pick probably not gonna be great either. I'm sure CLE would love to keep Wiggins in this scenario, but I still don't think I make that deal if I'm MIN. BOS can put together a better package IMO if picks are gonna be the deal breaker, cause neither Waiters, Bennett or Thompson are really that attractive.

Maybe they can, but will they? Will Love re-sign with Boston? Rondo didn't look all that great this season. Truth be told, Rondo hasn't been at his peak for years. He peaked early and got lazy. And now he has health issues too. If Boston gets Love, I think they have to keep enough assets to get another star. If they trade most of their assets for just Love, and Rondo happens to have a mediocre season again, and Love leaves... the Celtics are fucked.

[007]

Wiggins and LeBron?

FUUUUUCK

[JawsGT]

Maybe they can, but will they? Will Love re-sign with Boston? Rondo didn't look all that great this season. Truth be told, Rondo hasn't been at his peak for years. He peaked early and got lazy. And now he has health issues too. If Boston gets Love, I think they have to keep enough assets to get another star. If they trade most of their assets for just Love, and Rondo happens to have a mediocre season again, and Love leaves... the Celtics are fucked.

They have plenty of assets for both. Philly 2015 1st, LAC 2015 1st, BOS 2015 1st, SAC 2015 2nd, BKN 2016 1st, CLE 2016 1st, BOS 2016 1st, MIA 2016 2nd, BKN 2017 1st, SAC 2017 2nd, BKN 2018 1st. 3 1st rounders in each of the next two drafts + BKN 1st in 2017 and 2018 (+ their own 1st rounders in those years). Plus whomever is on their roster would be in play I would imagine, including Rondo, Smart, Olynk, Sullinger, Bass, Zeller etc.

I have no idea if Love would want to be in BOS considering some of the other destinations, or what type of offer they would make without reassurance from Love that he would resign. But they can definitely put together a more attractive package than CLE IMO, unless it includes Wiggins.

Alot of this will boil down to whether or not MIN wants to rebuild or not. Given the level of competition in the West, it may be in their best interests to hit the restart button. If so, I would try and deal with BOS UNTIL CLE was willing to include Wiggins. Keep focusing on BOS and maybe CLE cracks.

[Apollo]

Bennett, Waiters, Thompson, Miami's pick (and maybe add some other picks if necessary) is a big offer. I doubt we'll see bigger offers than that from other teams.

Time will show. I could easily see them keeping Wiggins and getting Love.

The Wolves don't need a bunch of guys, they need a star. If they accept that and don't get Wiggins it looks bad on them and it hurts the cred even more. My money is on them going for Wiggins or bust.

Not to mention if the Cavs somehow blew getting Love when he was in their grasp that's a huge blow. To turn Wiggins into Love would be fantastic for them. They would have three stars and a team full of depth.

[stretch]

Wiggins is not under contract yet, so he can be traded.

[BobLoblaw]

The Wolves don't need a bunch of guys, they need a star. If they accept that and don't get Wiggins it looks bad on them and it hurts the cred even more. My money is on them going for Wiggins or bust.

Not to mention if the Cavs somehow blew getting Love when he was in their grasp that's a huge blow. To turn Wiggins into Love would be fantastic for them. They would have three stars and a team full of depth.

Well, I'm sure they'd like a star, but show me a recent superstar trade where the team got a star in return. Melo, Dwight, Dwill, CP3. The CP3 trade included something close to a star, Eric Gordon who already looked injury prone at that point. The Williams trade had Favors, a nice prospect, but not a Wiggins caliber prospect. None of those trades had a prospect or asset of Wiggins caliber coming back.

I mean, people were saying almost exact same things about Dwight trade, CP3 trade, etc. It happens every summer. They got to get a star, no way they take this little, they should stand firm.

Of course, it's possible that Minny becomes that special case that stands out in history. And it helps that the other team is Cavaliers, not the greatest organization. And it's possible that they lose Love for nothing too.

But I won't be at all surprised if they reach some compromise towards the end of the summer, and that compromise doesn't involve Wiggins. It would be just like every other summer then.

[Apollo]

Well today I've read stories that the Cavs are talking trades with the Wolves.

One story says Wiggins is in play.

One story says the Cavs are trying to get it done without Wiggins.