Everything Dwane Casey

[SkywalkerAC]

5th in the league in NetRtg and DRtg, 2nd in REB%, 4-0. Casey's doing aight.

[Wild-ling#1]

You need both aspects.

Casey and Thibs have strengths in just one aspect.


Casey is not the long term answer as Raptors head coach.

You're right about the both aspects thing, generally. Kudos (The military is the paradigm of task-oriented leadership. But Saving Private Ryan is nearly all about how the relationship-oriented leader style can be both successful and appropriate even in a war ...)

But someone on another thread posted, today, that he thinks Casey is speaking with a "louder voice" this season ... because of last-year's debacle. Which is to say that the players may be more open and responsive to direction and discipline than they were a year ago.

Those of us who are parents know that you have to change your leadership style 1) as they grow and 2) from kid to kid. I think this is like that. When they mature - and realize that they actually love and trust you - you can stop yelling ...

If you ever started, that is ...

[Axel]

I appreciate the effort that you've put into laying out your position on Casey. Truth.

And I can concede that Casey hasn't held his key players accountable in the way you have said. I just think you're missing the reason for that (and therefore the grace and elegance of what he's accomplishing).

And the reason is: He simply can't. In the major pro sports that operate under a cap system, star players get treated differently. You can't pay them more than the next guy, so you have to offer them something else. And if you're not one of the marquee franchises that players have been dreaming about since they were kids, or a perennial contender, you're in an awkward spot ... and one that tends to replicate itself.

But for now, as the franchise tries to create the "critical mass" to be able to offer "target talent" the prospect of a winning environment, Masai has to work his magic carefully, to bring in guys with both talent and character ... and Casey has had to nurture this core ... make them comfortable here. Make this "home".

He can't simply play the rough disciplinarian. He has to continue preaching what he's preaching, while supporting his core guys and letting those guys figure some of it out for themselves. He's a lot more like David Blatt than you seem to realize. And yet he's retaining his dignity his sanity, and the players' respect, while doing it. Coach Casey, for now, is part "lame-duck" and part Yoda.

And it's working, right? The critical mass necessary to becoming a "marquee franchise" is building very rapidly here in Toronto. And everyone has been doing their part. Leiweke was a God-send. We have a smart and subtle GM. NBA players are starting to realize the Clevelands and OKCs can't compare with Toronto - a growing and dynamic international hub, with a country-wide market (and great fans, too!). Canada is now developing its own "LeBrons" and "Aldridge's" ... and they're starting to come home. Our core has started to win - regularly. And they're signed to term - though DeRozan is a special case. [He's given enough indication he'll re-sign (and I think he's a true "glue" guy), but It's Masai who's playing this carefully. As he should. But as the results seem to be coming ... it seems Snooch might well be shit out of luck.

In a nutshell, Toronto is becoming a respected market where the players can come and play for themselves, each other and for the love of the game - and win. When this project reaches its conclusion, if it does, the manager and coach will be in the Popovich spot. They'll be able to call some shots. But they'll have heaps of good-will to work with, in a market environment where monopoly-money is the new currency.

And maybe Casey will be out, because of the weaknesses as a tactician you and others have identified (to the extent that he hasn't been limited in what he can insist upon). Or maybe, with the right assistants and personnel, he can go right on doing his Yoda thing. I'd like this. But que sera, sera ...

Still, I think we'll owe him a debt ... sorta' like the one Torontonians owed Cito Gaston of the Blue Jays. The guy never seemed to be doing anything. But whatever the hell he was doing ... it worked.

I've bolded all the things that simply seem wrong to me.

The idea that a coach can't hold players accountable, and therefore it is acceptable to hold double standards is such a cop out. The job of a coach is to put players in the position to win; allowing and perhaps promoting/encouraging bad habits does not do that. If you aren't going to be a tactician, you at least need to hold the respect of your players. If you have that respect, then you can hold them accountable. Giving players whatever they want doesn't make them respect you, it makes them lazy and entitled. A descriptor that could apply to a few players that were Casey's guy "hell or high water."

There has been no real evidence that NBA players are looking at Toronto any differently than Cleveland and OKC - so don't see how you can even credit Casey with that.

Canada has yet to bring home a single player of high calibre. Cojo was a 3rd stringer, and while a good player, was never likely to return to SA with their pursuit of LMA. Bennett was waived after no one was willing to trade for him. If we sign an opposing team's starter, then we can start that talk, but we are a long way from bringing home a starter let alone a "LeBron".

Don't know what is worst, trying to compared Casey to Pop or Yoda. He's closer to JarJar than a Jedi Master.

Fans certainly don't owe a debt to a coach who has consistently said one thing, then done the other.

Finally, the bold and underlined is the part that ultimately blows up in your face. Casey can't "continue" to preach anything, unless we are continuing with bad habits, stubbornness and poor accountability.

We have managed to win due to the changes in the roster made by Masai and the level of success has been buoyed by the weakened division and conference that we play in. Winning will change the perception of free agents, but winning can only be sustained with strong principles being adhered to.

[slaw]

I love how whenever anything goes wrong it's all on Casey but whenever something good happens it's always explained by reference to a weak conference/division, luck, timing, players, assistant coaches, schedule, inanimate carbon rods, the phase of the moon, or the rolling of bones. Casey critics would have more credibility if they could bring it on themselves to give the man credit for anything.....

[Nilanka]

I love how whenever anything goes wrong it's all on Casey but whenever something good happens it's always explained by reference to a weak conference/division, luck, timing, players, assistant coaches, schedule, inanimate carbon rods, the phase of the moon, or the rolling of bones. Casey critics would have more credibility if they could bring it on themselves to give the man credit for anything.....

LOL, it slays me every time.

[Axel]

I love how whenever anything goes wrong it's all on Casey but whenever something good happens it's always explained by reference to a weak conference/division, luck, timing, players, assistant coaches, schedule, inanimate carbon rods, the phase of the moon, or the rolling of bones. Casey critics would have more credibility if they could bring it on themselves to give the man credit for anything.....

Talent and timing has led to wins. Casey has not; he's proven to be poor tactician, he's proven to not hold players accountable, he's burning through assistants like a fat kid with chocolate.

What has Casey done to make a tangible improvement over any other coach in that situation?

[Wild-ling#1]

No one can hold LeBron accountable. He has to hold himself accountable. And he'll only listen if he respects you. And that's only because he's actually smart - and a good guy. Coaches in all major sports have to live with star players' warts and problematic personalities .... because they can't be replaced - and they know it.

If Casey had truly "lost the room", he'd be gone. But he hasn't. We can see that now. And it's been quite a delicate balancing act, in my view, to keep it. "Kudos", I say.

I don't think Carroll could have gotten more money - but we'll never know if he could have gotten a dime more. Because he didn't even try. He was as emotional as he was in his introductory interview, I think, because he truly believed that the Raptors were offering him a spot on an up-and-coming franchise that respects him as a player, and as a man. That's what they're offering. That's what Casey is delivering. I think James Johnson understands that, too. That's why he came back - even though others think he's being offered nothing but dis-respect and short-shrift. It's just "tough love". But it is "love". I think Jonas and Ross and Biyombo and Lowry (etc., too) are all here because they like the overall situation (Lowry might be the exception - I suspect he's only here because he actually loves Demar Derozan. Still - he's done well here and may do better yet. He's not an idiot).

Casey often can't tell you why he does what he does. Why he puts up with what he puts up with. I find it funny that people operate on the assumption that neither Casey nor Masai can read a white-board (or the pundits). Or understand it. That they don't know the things that you do know. They're just taking a "long-view", I think.

Dan can tell you, in detail, all of the ways the Raptors can add that crucial "last-piece" to take the next step. But I think I can say that they have every possible route open to them. We can draft, trade or sign "that" guy. But there aren't enough to go around, of course...

If this is true, and we are where I think we are, I'm surprised that you insist on taking the view that "that" guy is more likely to come here without Casey than with. True, Masai may pull the plug on Casey sometime before the FA period in 2016. But I wouldn't be so sure.

I'd bet on the "after", if anything. After we get "that" guy. And I wouldn't bet very much on that.

[Axel]

No one can hold LeBron accountable. He has to hold himself accountable. And he'll only listen if he respects you. And that's only because he's actually smart - and a good guy. Coaches in all major sports have to live with star players' warts and problematic personalities .... because they can't be replaced - and they know it.

If Casey had truly "lost the room", he'd be gone. But he hasn't. We can see that now. And it's been quite a delicate balancing act, in my view, to keep it. "Kudos", I say.

I don't think Carroll could have gotten more money - but we'll never know if he could have gotten a dime more. Because he didn't even try. He was as emotional as he was in his introductory interview, I think, because he truly believed that the Raptors were offering him a spot on an up-and-coming franchise that respects him as a player, and as a man. That's what they're offering. That's what Casey is delivering. I think James Johnson understands that, too. That's why he came back - even though others think he's being offered nothing but dis-respect and short-shrift. I think Jonas and Ross and Biyombo and Lowry are all here because they like the overall situation (Lowry might be the exception - I suspect he's only here because he actually loves Demar Derozan. Still - he's done well here and may do better yet. He's not an idiot).

Casey often can't tell you why he does what he does. Why he puts up with what he puts up with. I find it funny that people operate on the assumption that neither Casey nor Masai can read a white-board or the pundits. That they don't know the things that you do know. They're just taking a "long-view", I think.

Dan can tell you, in detail, all of the ways the Raptors can add that crucial "last-piece" to take the next step. But I think I can say that they have every possible route open to them. We can draft, trade or sign "that" guy.

If this is true, and we are where I think we are, I'm surprised that you insist on taking the view that "that" guy is more likely to come here without Casey than with. True, Masai may pull the plug on Casey sometime before the FA period in 2016. But I wouldn't be so sure.

I'd bet on the "after", if anything. After we get "that" guy. And I wouldn't bet very much on that.

What exactly does LeBron have to do with Casey not holding GV, Rudy Gay, or Bargnani accountable? We aren't talking about keeping stars in line, we're talking about average to above average NBA talent that is highly replaceable.

Casey hasn't lost the room because he coddled key players instead of holding them accountable. The exact opposite of the message he started spouting on Day One. But a good coach doesn't just give players what they want, a good coach makes players understand and accept what they need. Making players happy is easy; making them Championship worthy is not, but that's why they get paid the big bucks.

No one has said that Masai or Casey don't know what we know, so don't have a remote clue what you are even talking about there. I fully expect Masai and Casey to know what I know, what has been frustrating has been that Casey hasn't shown it though. Again you seem to be commenting more on what you think about other posters than on actual facts.

[Wild-ling#1]

What exactly does LeBron have to do with Casey not holding GV, Rudy Gay, or Bargnani accountable? We aren't talking about keeping stars in line, we're talking about average to above average NBA talent that is highly replaceable.

Casey hasn't lost the room because he coddled key players instead of holding them accountable. The exact opposite of the message he started spouting on Day One.

Casey came at a time when we couldn't retain our best players. Let alone scoop anyone else's best players (and hence the delicate dance Masai now does with Demar - we just might be able to replace Demar ... but he actually wants to stay ). That's why he had to treat them with "kid gloves" - why Barngani (etc.) got the "LeBron" treatment.

As for Casey changing his tune ... it's either evidence of hypocrisy ... or evidence he's been learning on the job. And we have to assume Masai has had a hand in the franchise's approach to talent. It's as weird as anything else in the "Casey's a dolt" narrative that it is maintained at the same time we believe that Masai is a genius who knows exactly what he's doing ...

[raptors999]

If you look at any objective list anywhere online, that's not the case.

You may say that you know more about Casey than them, but I'm pretty sure you don't know more about the other HCs.

Based on what. Every team projected to make the playoff has won a round with the teams like the Celtics on the border and nobody thinks Casey is better than Stevens which means Casey is at the bottom not the top. The #15-17 is arbitrary with a closer look Casey is late 20 at best based on actual performance and history. Team has yet to win 50 or a playoff round has been in the 20s' in ORtg anbd DRtg in his tenure and its year 5.

[Axel]

Casey came at a time when we couldn't retain our best players. That's why he had to treat them with "kid gloves" - why Barngani (etc.) got the "LeBron" treatment.

As for Casey changing his tune ... it's either evidence of hypocrisy ... or evidence he's been learning on the job. And we have to assume Masai has had a hand in the franchise's approach to talent. It's as weird as anything else in the "Casey's a dolt" narrative that this is maintained, while we believe that Masai knows exactly what he's doing ...

Kids gloves is exactly the opposite of what Casey said he was bringing when he was hired, during which Bargs and DD were already here.

"evidence he's been learning"?? lol oh man. So going further and further away from the core principles that got you the job, and that are widely accepted as better than "hell or high water" is evidence of learning.

Your attempts to disprove criticisms of Casey have not been particularly convincing.

[S.R.]

Many wrong decisions were made last year, some of them self-admitted by coaches and players, so there's not much need to try to debate that or to chalk it up to Internet haters. Adjustments so far this year have addressed some of last year's strongest criticisms. The great news is it looks like the adjustments are sound and this year may really be different.

[raptors999]

Many wrong decisions were made last year, some of them self-admitted by coaches and players, so there's not much need to try to debate that or to chalk it up to Internet haters. Adjustments so far this year have addressed some of last year's strongest criticisms. The great news is it looks like the adjustments are sound and this year may really be different.

And keeping Casey a lame duck will prevent slippage. It's a zombie double tap to make sure that nobody lets Casey have any input whatsoever. He finishes out his contract and then leaves

[Wild-ling#1]

And yet I would stress, with respect, that you offer no alternative theory as to why Masai has kept Casey on. I have heard it said that Masai "gets along" with Casey. I can't remember - maybe it was said that Masai "trusts" Casey ... but trusts him to do what:

Fuck up his franchise? Teach/preach bad habits?

Either Masai is a blind idiot ... or he sees things differently. And as the team starts to demonstrate, early in this season, under Casey, that they are starting to "get it" ... how can we not at least acknowledge that what seems to be going very right might have something to do with Casey's leadership (broadly construed), after all?

And I think you really ought to acknowledge is that I haven't been trying to "disprove criticisms of Casey" in the way that you mean. Put another way, I haven't second-guessed you (or anyone) when it comes to your analysis of what matters, and what is successful, on a basketball court.

!

(I have said, before, that I think it only fair to factor in injuries and personnel issues into last year's playoff debacle).

But again - I do appreciate your good-faith discursive efforts. It's been a lot more fun watching the games, after reading and discussing basketball matters here, than it was last season.

[golden]

I love how whenever anything goes wrong it's all on Casey but whenever something good happens it's always explained by reference to a weak conference/division, luck, timing, players, assistant coaches, schedule, inanimate carbon rods, the phase of the moon, or the rolling of bones. Casey critics would have more credibility if they could bring it on themselves to give the man credit for anything.....

I give Casey a ton of credit for having the type of personality that Masai feels he can work with. That's not a sarcastic comment, but an important skill in an ego-driven industry like the NBA.

You may not like it, but I honestly feel like Masai is imposing his will on the franchise and vision of how he wants his players to be (i.e. tough, smart,..) and play (i.e. not like Casey's system last season), in spite of Casey.