#FireCasey

[A.I]

OK, sure, let's put JV in Kanter's role. Honestly at this point it'd be terrific. Kanter gets more shots than JV in 5 fewer minutes. When he's on the floor they're using him.

Can you honestly imagine that actually happening with Dwane, though? Look at what's happened to Powell and Joseph. They're just emulating better players (lowry and derozan) rather than playing their own game, and the only explanation I can think of is that Casey's style is rigid to an extreme fault.

Casey just tries to stick triangles into square shaped holes. Powell isn't Derozan, but is forced to create shots like him when the infamous all bench lineup is out there. CoJo lost everything he learned from the Spurs. Basically whoever the backup is, is asked to play like the Raptors 2 stars.

Funnily enough, the solution is so damn simple as to how to play Powell to his strengths, play JV with the bench unit. He is usually the first one to be subbed out and doesn't return until the starters do. Casey played JV + bench once. Give JV shots, Powell can be the 3&D guy that he is, and everyone is happy, but nope, for whatever reason Casey can't understand this.

We've seen Powell play really well with the starters, why? Because he gets to do what he does best, instead of being forced to create shots.

[ogi]

Casey just tries to stick triangles into square shaped holes. Powell isn't Derozan, but is forced to create shots like him when the infamous all bench lineup is out there. CoJo lost everything he learned from the Spurs. Basically whoever the backup is, is asked to play like the Raptors 2 stars.

Funnily enough, the solution is so damn simple as to how to play Powell to his strengths, play JV with the bench unit. He is usually the first one to be subbed out and doesn't return until the starters do. Casey played JV + bench once. Give JV shots, Powell can be the 3&D guy that he is, and everyone is happy, but nope, for whatever reason Casey can't understand this.

We've seen Powell play really well with the starters, why? Because he gets to do what he does best, instead of being forced to create shots.

I see nothing wrong with trying to develop powell as a primary ballhandler off the bench. I think he has the skill for it and just needs to work through his mistakes and get better.

[A.I]

I see nothing wrong with trying to develop powell as a primary ballhandler off the bench. I think he has the skill for it and just needs to work through his mistakes and get better.

Fair enough, I'd like to see him improve in that category as well, but he has played poorily recently because of it.

[Jrice9]

Well that's the other interesting part of this. People complained about how the Raptors were too concentrated on winning and not developing JV through touches the last few years, yet when Casey does this with Norm the reverse complaint is made.

I think there is nuance here. I do agree that JV should have more feature in the 2nd unit, Ibaka too! But also this is a tough balance on a number of factors. Arguablly non DeMar minutes are going to bad bad offensively, why make them terrible defensively too with JV if offensively he wouldn't make a difference because they could double him and he's still a sketchy passer.

Still, I think Casey should experiment with this more just as he has with alot of interesting multiple point guard/small sets.

Alot of this becomes irrelevant when Lowry returns and we don't have to worry about non DeMar minutes anymore.

[Nilanka]

Well that's the other interesting part of this. People complained about how the Raptors were too concentrated on winning and not developing JV through touches the last few years, yet when Casey does this with Norm the reverse complaint is made.

I think there is nuance here. I do agree that JV should have more feature in the 2nd unit, Ibaka too! But also this is a tough balance on a number of factors. Arguablly non DeMar minutes are going to bad bad offensively, why make them terrible defensively too with JV if offensively he wouldn't make a difference because they could double him and he's still a sketchy passer.

Still, I think Casey should experiment with this more just as he has with alot of interesting multiple point guard/small sets.

Alot of this becomes irrelevant when Lowry returns and we don't have to worry about non DeMar minutes anymore.

A big factor is timing too. Not giving JV "learning minutes" early in the season, seems pointless.

But we're in the stretch run of the season now, and paying close attention to seeding every night. The mistakes that result from Norm's "learning minutes" are less tolerable as each game becomes more crucial.

[Jrice9]

A big factor is timing too. Not giving JV "learning minutes" early in the season, seems pointless.

But we're in the stretch run of the season now, and paying close attention to seeding every night. The mistakes that result from Norm's "learning minutes" are less tolerable as each game becomes more crucial.

The games matter early in the season just as much as late. If we wouldn't have struggled in January, we wouldn't be worried about the 8 seed.

I understand your point though considering that's a sunk cost. Yet, I'm not really sure what is the better option. I do think more JV and/or Ibaka with the 2nd unit would help but as mentioned before this has issues with rest/fatigue/taking them out earlier and in the case of JV diminishing the defense.

Another for Norm's ball dominance is that our backup point guard play (and I like Delon and even FVV) is fairly poor right now in terms of offensive talent. Neither of them can create much off the dribble so Norm carries a bigger load. This would be true even if JV was in but likely would be mitigated if we ran more post ups or pick and roll. Another option for Casey might be to stagger CoJo and DeMar more so Norm would play more with CoJo. This would presumedly even further increase DeMar's usage though.

Overall, I think we can second guess Casey a bit on this and fairly. But its not exactly an easy situation to lose your offensive quarterback, king of the 2nd unit at this point in the season. The Raptors have played better than I expected after that happened so I hink Casey deserves some credit. The defense has really turned a corner something I don't think we talk about enough.

[S.R.]

Those all-bench units just really run shit for plays sometimes. There's a lot of standing around, a lot of wasted seconds early in the shot clock, then there's too often some rushed attempt at hero ball really late in the clock. Contrast that to the Bulls bench last game, in the first half with Butler and Rondo sitting (the two guys generating most of the team's offence), that bench ran beautifully, got easy buckets, and built the lead. There are no offensive dynamos on the Bulls bench, but they embarrassed the Raptors.

[Nilanka]

The games matter early in the season just as much as late.

Technically, this is true. But I'm not sure many coaches would treat game #5 with the same level of urgency as game #75.

The first quarter of the season is usually reserved for experimenting with lineups, formations, playbooks, etc. The last quarter of the season is usually reserved for tightening rotations and eliminating bad habits, while maximizing focus & intensity.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

RE: the bolded, seems like Norm is being molded into that role....almost to a fault. He's been chucking a bit too much lately, almost like he was given one of Casey's infamous role cards that says "bench scorer".

That is due to the lack of creativity from Casey, or the inability to draw upon the natural strengths of the player... or his stubbornness. Probably all of the above.

Whether it's Powell or Ross before him, Casey forces them to play DeRozan's game with the bench unit, as DD-lite. It's no different from how Casey has forced Joseph, and Vasquez before him, to change their game to become Lowry-lite.

It's no longer worth getting annoyed with, as long as Casey is the coach.

[Raptorsnz]

That is due to the lack of creativity from Casey, or the inability to draw upon the natural strengths of the player... or his stubbornness. Probably all of the above.

Whether it's Powell or Ross before him, Casey forces them to play DeRozan's game with the bench unit, as DD-lite. It's no different from how Casey has forced Joseph, and Vasquez before him, to change their game to become Lowry-lite.

It's no longer worth getting annoyed with, as long as Casey is the coach.

Ross was never asked to play like DeRozan, what are you talking about? Ross was pretty much used exclusively as a 3 point shooter, and any plays run for him were screens for 3s. He played nothing like DeRozan and Casey didn't force him to.

Casey only makes Powell play like DeRozan in that they both get pick and rolls run for them, and that's understandable since Powell is a great slasher like DeRozan is.

[KeonClark]

Ross was never asked to play like DeRozan, what are you talking about? Ross was pretty much used exclusively as a 3 point shooter, and any plays run for him were screens for 3s. He played nothing like DeRozan and Casey didn't force him to.

Casey only makes Powell play like DeRozan in that they both get pick and rolls run for them, and that's understandable since Powell is a great slasher like DeRozan is.

Powell is a great slasher but it seems like he's developed the yips in the last month or 2 around the rim. The simplest lay ups keep rolling out like a broken golfer who can't make 2 foot putts

[big boi]

To the point about accountability:

Casey benched Derozan in the 4th quarter of game 2 in the playoffs last year against Indy when he was playing poorly. Derozan was a pending free agent and the raps lost game 1.

To me that's proof only that Dwayne has eyes. Derozan was absolutely torched by Paul George in that series yet Demar insisted on going Mano y Mano with him. Only one of them playing defence. It does show that Dwayne is accountable to the raptors organization perhaps. He wasn't losing on purpose.

[Chr1s1anL]

Keep it up coach.

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[Jrice9]

To me that's proof only that Dwayne has eyes. Derozan was absolutely torched by Paul George in that series yet Demar insisted on going Mano y Mano with him. Only one of them playing defence. It does show that Dwayne is accountable to the raptors organization perhaps. He wasn't losing on purpose.

So Casey benched his all star in the 4th quarter of a playoff game and yet that doesn't disprove that he doesn't hold players accountable. What would?

[big boi]

Bye princess! 😀

I think WMCJ is one of the most thoughtful posters on these boards. If he didn't post the forum would be poorer for it.