#FireCasey

[Axel]

I'm not saying I like it. And I don't think this, arrangement, let's call it, could win a championship. But it's yielded a pretty damn nice run for this group.

While that may be true, doesn't it feel like this group has run as far as they can and something needs to change to get them to the next level; coaching change would be the logical next step to try and find that next level.

[KHD]

I really don't get how "motivator" has become such a metric for coaching or for Casey.

if it is a metric, he's failed at it hugely, given how many times this team looks unprepared and disinterested in the first half of games.

[LJ2]

While that may be true, doesn't it feel like this group has run as far as they can and something needs to change to get them to the next level; coaching change would be the logical next step to try and find that next level.

I disagree that it feels like the team hasn't gone as far as they could. Better, more talented, teams with better coaches have run into the same road block put up by LeBron for what seems like more than a decade now. I do agree that something has to change in order to get to that next level, and the next logical step is a change in coach.

Edit: A lot will be told in the way this team competes against LeBron, should they meet in the playoffs.

[golden]

I disagree that it feels like the team hasn't gone as far as they could. Better, more talented, teams with better coaches have run into the same road block put up by LeBron for what seems like more than a decade now. I do agree that something has to change in order to get to that next level, and the next logical step is a change in coach.

Edit: A lot will be told in the way this team competes against LeBron, should they meet in the playoffs.

If the Raps beats Lebron, then we have to retire this thread. Despite sweeping the Pacers, the Cavs still look beatable.

[psrs1]

Disagree with that. The perfect coach for Lowry is a coach he truly respects (as a coach) to the point where he allows himself to be held accountable by said coach. Casey's approach feels more like appeasement.

I think appeasement is the right word to describe the relationship between D.C. and KL

[danno]

I think appeasement is the right word to describe the relationship between D.C. and KL

Which one is Hitler? 😐🤔

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[3inthekeon]

There's a lot of bullshit generated for some time on this board about "accountability".

Does Casey hold his "stars" accountable. Maybe he doesn't, but maybe he does. Because what most here consider accountability is public humiliation with benchings or maybe a sideline tirade.

As far as NBA teams and players are concerned, film sessions are the major sources of accountability. Does the coach criticize some players, but not his star? Griffin relayed a story of attending a Cav film session where Blatt criticized a bunch of players, but despite Lebron obviously loafing back on D, Blatt never said a peep. It was shortly after he canned Blatt.

There were similar issues with Brooks in OKC. From Zach Lowe, Feb 2, 2016:

Donovan has done a better job than Brooks of holding stars accountable in film sessions, sources say

I've never heard mention of Casey holding DD and KL accountable in film sessions, but I've never heard he doesn't either.

[white men can't jump]

There's a lot of bullshit generated for some time on this board about "accountability".

Does Casey hold his "stars" accountable. Maybe he doesn't, but maybe he does. Because what most here consider accountability is public humiliation with benchings or maybe a sideline tirade.

As far as NBA teams and players are concerned, film sessions are the major sources of accountability. Does the coach criticize some players, but not his star? Griffin relayed a story of attending a Cav film session where Blatt criticized a bunch of players, but despite Lebron obviously loafing back on D, Blatt never said a peep. It was shortly after he canned Blatt.

There were similar issues with Brooks in OKC. From Zach Lowe, Feb 2, 2016:



I've never heard mention of Casey holding DD and KL accountable in film sessions, but I've never heard he doesn't either.

It's not bullshit and certainly not just about how he handles his stars.

At a certain point, wtf does it matter if you're calling someone out in film sessions but never holding them accountable on the court if they continue to be an issue? The vets are good examples here. I don't care if he was calling out AA, Salmons, Scola or now Carroll in film sessions. If they are chronically underperforming and literally hurting the team on the court, and sometimes while another player has been consistently outperforming them but still being held down by having to play behind such guys, then it is a very real problem directly impacting what our results are on the court. It's a failure of discipline where the coach, intentionally or not, is very obviously incorporating some bias in his decision on rotations.

Powell should have leapfrogged Carroll in the rotation months ago, and Carroll should be knocked down to just above Bruno in the wing/forward rotation. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Yet he has continued to get more leash than he deserves. Are you saying that's ok if he's getting called out in film sessions? Because that almost just makes it worse if you ask me.

**It is definitely the kind of thing that can lead to problems on a team. IMO the biggest reason it hasn't is because of how high character the guys Masai has brought in have been. Which also makes it more puzzling as the vets and stars seem like high character guys, which should make it easier to have balanced accountability.

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[LJ2]

It's not bullshit and certainly not just about how he handles his stars.

At a certain point, wtf does it matter if you're calling someone out in film sessions but never holding them accountable on the court if they continue to be an issue? The vets are good examples here. I don't care if he was calling out AA, Salmons, Scola or now Carroll in film sessions. If they are chronically underperforming and literally hurting the team on the court, and sometimes while another player has been consistently outperforming them but still being held down by having to play behind such guys, then it is a very real problem directly impacting what our results are on the court. It's a failure of discipline where the coach, intentionally or not, is very obviously incorporating some bias in his decision on rotations.

Powell should have leapfrogged Carroll in the rotation months ago, and Carroll should be knocked down to just above Bruno in the wing/forward rotation. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Yet he has continued to get more leash than he deserves. Are you saying that's ok if he's getting called out in film sessions? Because that almost just makes it worse if you ask me.

**It is definitely the kind of thing that can lead to problems on a team. IMO the biggest reason it hasn't is because of how high character the guys Masai has brought in have been. Which also makes it more puzzling as the vets and stars seem like high character guys, which should make it easier to have balanced accountability.

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In a perfect world that works. But you go all Chip Kelly on spoiled, young, rich men and well you've seen what happens. You run the risk of losing the team all together. That's why I think having guys like Tucker are so important because they help to keep players accountable and command a certain respect which coaches don't have.

[JimiCliff]

It's not bullshit and certainly not just about how he handles his stars.

At a certain point, wtf does it matter if you're calling someone out in film sessions but never holding them accountable on the court if they continue to be an issue? The vets are good examples here. I don't care if he was calling out AA, Salmons, Scola or now Carroll in film sessions. If they are chronically underperforming and literally hurting the team on the court, and sometimes while another player has been consistently outperforming them but still being held down by having to play behind such guys, then it is a very real problem directly impacting what our results are on the court. It's a failure of discipline where the coach, intentionally or not, is very obviously incorporating some bias in his decision on rotations.

Powell should have leapfrogged Carroll in the rotation months ago, and Carroll should be knocked down to just above Bruno in the wing/forward rotation. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Yet he has continued to get more leash than he deserves. Are you saying that's ok if he's getting called out in film sessions? Because that almost just makes it worse if you ask me.

**It is definitely the kind of thing that can lead to problems on a team. IMO the biggest reason it hasn't is because of how high character the guys Masai has brought in have been. Which also makes it more puzzling as the vets and stars seem like high character guys, which should make it easier to have balanced accountability.

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That's one reason why bringing in Tucker was such a great move - he's finally called Demar out about his defence. If Casey had been doing this all along, it wouldn't have been necessary for Tucker to do it.

[3inthekeon]

That's one reason why bringing in Tucker was such a great move - he's finally called Demar out about his defence. If Casey had been doing this all along, it wouldn't have been necessary for Tucker to do it.

Has Demar's D been better on a personal level since Tucker arrived? DD has one of the lowest contest rates in the league, 4.3 contests/36. Tucker arrived at the AS break and since then DD's contest rate is 4.3 contests/36. Quite the improvement.

[JimiCliff]

Has Demar's D been better on a personal level since Tucker arrived? DD has one of the lowest contest rates in the league, 4.3 contests/36. Tucker arrived at the AS break and since then DD's contest rate is 4.3 contests/36. Quite the improvement.

Fair point, although A) that's only one defensive stat, and B) given that Lowry was out for most of that time, you might have expected that contest rate to tail off even more. Seeing as it didn't, that may be a sign of improvement.

Anecdotally, I've noticed some sequences where he's given a level of defensive effort I'd never seen before.

Regardless, the point I was trying to make was that if Tucker felt that he had to call Demar out about his defensive effort, it means the coaches aren't getting on him about it.

[LJ2]

Fair point, although A) that's only one defensive stat, and B) given that Lowry was out for most of that time, you might have expected that contest rate to tail off even more. Seeing as it didn't, that may be a sign of improvement.

Anecdotally, I've noticed some sequences where he's given a level of defensive effort I'd never seen before.

Regardless, the point I was trying to make was that if Tucker felt that he had to call Demar out about his defensive effort, it means the coaches aren't getting on him about it.

I don't think Tucker getting on him means coaches aren't. Tucker is in the game with him. He gets a different perspective and level of respect from his piers. Who are you going to listen to more, a dude in a suit or a bad mo'fo who could smack the crap out of you?

[3inthekeon]

I don't think Tucker getting on him means coaches aren't. Tucker is in the game with him. He gets a different perspective and level of respect from his piers. Who are you going to listen to more, a dude in a suit or a bad mo'fo who could smack the crap out of you?

This. My boss telling me I'm not pulling my weight at work means less than a respected and hard working co-worker telling me the same thing. Doesn't mean I'll be much less of a fuck-up (because I'm not the brightest bulb in the workplace), but I'll try to put in a bit of extra effort for a while at least.

[golden]

There's a lot of bullshit generated for some time on this board about "accountability".

Does Casey hold his "stars" accountable. Maybe he doesn't, but maybe he does. Because what most here consider accountability is public humiliation with benchings or maybe a sideline tirade.

As far as NBA teams and players are concerned, film sessions are the major sources of accountability. Does the coach criticize some players, but not his star? Griffin relayed a story of attending a Cav film session where Blatt criticized a bunch of players, but despite Lebron obviously loafing back on D, Blatt never said a peep. It was shortly after he canned Blatt.

There were similar issues with Brooks in OKC. From Zach Lowe, Feb 2, 2016:



I've never heard mention of Casey holding DD and KL accountable in film sessions, but I've never heard he doesn't either.

Let me paraphase your post: talking about accountability on this board is bullshit, because we can't really know if it really is bullshit or not. So it might not actually be bullshit.