#FireCasey

[KeonClark]

I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. It's been stated by Casey - The Raps system is designed to minimize turnovers and get to the free throw. It's not a ball movement system - by design. And everybody's job is to "fit in" with Kyle and DeMar. This means that bigs and shooters aren't going to get priority in this system and have to subjugate their games to shoot-first guards in the Raptors system as opposed to a ball movement system.

To be explicit: plays aren't being called for bigs or shooters as a first option, unless Lowry and DeMar choose to do that. The system is a modified dribble drive attack offense, with getting fouled as the second option and kick-outs as the third option on most attempts.

That means that everybody plays off of Lowry and Derozan, or "subjugates their game" to fit in with Lowry and DD. It's been mentioned so many times in the media, I don't see why slaw went ballistic on that innocuous comment.

Because that's the makeup of every basketball team. You have between 1 and 3 go to guys, and the rest are role players designed to support those guys. Ours are kyle and demar (I think offensively jv could be a close 3rd). The issue isn't kyle and demar being the focal.point, it's the mind numbingly predictable 4th quarter offense. I like the ball in their hands, they just have to move it. A lot of times it will come back in a better spot to shoot.

[Axel]

Because that's the makeup of every basketball team. You have between 1 and 3 go to guys, and the rest are role players designed to support those guys. Ours are kyle and demar (I think offensively jv could be a close 3rd). The issue isn't kyle and demar being the focal.point, it's the mind numbingly predictable 4th quarter offense. I like the ball in their hands, they just have to move it. A lot of times it will come back in a better spot to shoot.

Not exactly. Yes, you want the ball in the hands of your best players but you also encourage them to make the best decision and get their teammates involved. Casey seems to encourage them to "empty the clip" rather than make the smart play.

What I don't understand is why the high PnR was abandoned for that last possession in favour of an ISO attempt. PnR at least creates space and options. Demar's ISO did neither.

[JawsGT]

Because that's the makeup of every basketball team. You have between 1 and 3 go to guys, and the rest are role players designed to support those guys. Ours are kyle and demar (I think offensively jv could be a close 3rd). The issue isn't kyle and demar being the focal.point, it's the mind numbingly predictable 4th quarter offense. I like the ball in their hands, they just have to move it. A lot of times it will come back in a better spot to shoot.

Exactly, most teams don't run incredibly sophisticated offences, they run PnR, post ups and ISO just like we do. They try to get mismatches and they do drive and kicks. Great ball movement is usually the result of the defence breaking down after a double team, followed by good passing and scramble D. It's a much easier thing to achieve when you have the best PnR tandem in the league which is supported by the best all around PF in basketball and a PG with unlimited range and and top 5 handles. The Warriors arguably have the top 2 off the dribble 3pt shooters in the league, 3 of the top 5 shooters in the league, and the best all around PF in basketball. Moving the ball is easy. And CLE ball movement is generated in much the same way we do. Perhaps the biggest difference between us and them is off the ball action. That could greatly improve, but it has nothing to do with running plays for other guys and featuring role players in the offence. But it could create one of a few options during each play for ball handlers to consider.

Not exactly. Yes, you want the ball in the hands of your best players but you also encourage them to make the best decision and get their teammates involved. Casey seems to encourage them to "empty the clip" rather than make the smart play.

What I don't understand is why the high PnR was abandoned for that last possession in favour of an ISO attempt. PnR at least creates space and options. Demar's ISO did neither.

Thats what bugs me about the timeout. Cause I'd bet my last dollar that if casey hadn't of called a timeout, Lowry or Demar, whomever had the ball, would have asked for a screen on that play, and maybe made something of it. Instead, Casey calls a timeout, lets the D get set and prepare that much more, and then proceeds to draw up exactly nothing from it...nothing. He actually had to call a timeout to tell everyone to back the fuck off and let Demar go one on one against a bigger defender (you knew damn well Ish Smith wasn't gonna be guarding him). Oh wait, he did put Ross in though to help create space lol.

[DanH]

It wasn't just the last play. The Raps barely ran screens for the second half of the 4th Q, and even fewer by their bigs.

[KHD]

Because that's the makeup of every basketball team. You have between 1 and 3 go to guys, and the rest are role players designed to support those guys. Ours are kyle and demar (I think offensively jv could be a close 3rd). The issue isn't kyle and demar being the focal.point, it's the mind numbingly predictable 4th quarter offense. I like the ball in their hands, they just have to move it. A lot of times it will come back in a better spot to shoot.

Yeah, I don't think that kyle and derozan shouldn't be the main guys, i just think the team can do better at getting the ball moving to create better opportunities for everyone.

One thing that sets the really good teams apart is the ability to run actual plays against crunch-time defences. but we haven't even tried to do that most games, we just revert to chicken-shit iso-ball to try and avoid turnovers. Unfortunately, the shots we take are no better than live-ball turnovers, because 4 of our players are basically at the opponent's baseline and the shot is easily rebounded.

[JawsGT]

It wasn't just the last play. The Raps barely ran screens for the second half of the 4th Q, and even fewer by their bigs.

yeah, I mean it never should have come down to the final possession after building such a big lead. The same thing happened against Minny, Chi, Hou, and...shit there was another game a couple of weeks ago where we blew a healthy 4th Q lead against a weak team. That's 5 wins right there, coughed up. Losing to Philly sucks and all, but throwing away big leads in the 4th are the ones that really hurt.

[golden]

Because that's the makeup of every basketball team. You have between 1 and 3 go to guys, and the rest are role players designed to support those guys. Ours are kyle and demar (I think offensively jv could be a close 3rd). The issue isn't kyle and demar being the focal.point, it's the mind numbingly predictable 4th quarter offense. I like the ball in their hands, they just have to move it. A lot of times it will come back in a better spot to shoot.

And I totally agree with this. It's nothing new or revolutionary. Basically, it's what Carroll said.... that we stopped running plays in the 4th quarter and that he and other role players were just sitting around and watching (i.e. subjugating their games to) the stars. That's part of the problem. The bigger problem is that both your guards don't play defense because they are saving their energy for offense. So a role player like JV, who could help with the offensive load, is used in a system where he needs to be like Biz (which he's not). That's subjugating your game. Or a guy like Carroll, who is a rhythm shooter, ball-movement system player, ends up driving the ball or shooting out of rhythm. Not the same shots he was getting with the Hawks, because he's had to subjugate his game to the Raps system that maximizes only Lowry and DeRozan.

[JawsGT]

And I totally agree with this. It's nothing new or revolutionary. Basically, it's what Carroll said.... that we stopped running plays in the 4th quarter and that he and other role players were just sitting around and watching (i.e. subjugating their games to) the stars. That's part of the problem. The bigger problem is that both your guards don't play defense because they are saving their energy for offense. So a role player like JV, who could help with the offensive load, is used in a system where he needs to be like Biz (which he's not). That's subjugating your game. Or a guy like Carroll, who is a rhythm shooter, ball-movement system player, ends up driving the ball or shooting out of rhythm. Not the same shots he was getting with the Hawks, because he's had to subjugate his game to the Raps system that maximizes only Lowry and DeRozan.

Thats all fine and dandy, but what exactly would you have them do differently that would maximize other players talents. I like most of the shots other players on this team take. I think JV should get the ball more, like most do. I wouldn't mind seeing a little more off ball movement, perhaps before or during the PnR that may free somebody up for an open shot or layup. The system isn't designed only to maximize only Lowry and Demar. It's designed to use their abilities to get others decent shot opportunities. And we have seen what that can lead to, a historically great offence. It's when we abandon that that we run into problems, and as we have seen from multiple 4th Q's lately, that abandonment screws Lowry and Demar as much as anyone else. Tell me how that last play is maximizing Demar, cause from my perspective, it's putting him in the worse possible position to succeed. Having all-stars go ISO in the 4th, putting tremendous pressure on them to make plays under tough conditions, while not allowing other players to help them, isn't maximizing anyone's talent.

[iblastoff]

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[Axel]

I would say that neither player uses their abilities to get others good shots in the 4th; they rarely use the pass except to bail themselves out when trapped.

That is a huge problem and that culture has been fostered by Casey.

It's pretty clear by now that this isn't a case of a player making a bad decision on his own, cause we've seen this decision too many times for the coach to not address it if he wasn't in favour of it.

Each game might be a micro sample of Casey as a whole; he is good for 3/4ths of the way, but he is a hinderance to that final quarter. He might win a round or two in the playoffs, but he is a hindrance to getting those deep playoff wins.

[Jangles]

I mostly agree with Golden's recent narrative about our role players sacrificing for the sake of our 2 stars. During the flow of the game, we seem to play loose and play well with getting the entire team involved, yet in late game situations we revert to Kyle and Demar taking jump shot after jump shot.

Defences tighten at the end of close games and our 2 guys probably don't trust the role players to make plays when it matters as much as they probably should. It seems clear that Casey certainly doesn't trust them. He has been a problem for us for years, a problem that is gone next year, I hope.

[S.R.]

Just a quick reminder that this team carried the #1 ORTG through January 17th and had the best 4th quarter +/- for a good part of the year, this very recent return to bad form late in games has not characterized the team for most of the season so we shouldn't be oversimplifying this as something Casey has always done, because it isn't. It looks like an old bad strategy that's been dusted off ("just don't turn the ball over" taken to the extreme) and I'd guess Casey's trying too hard to break his team out of the slump which was initially induced by injuries but has more recently gained steam due to generally shitty play and now poor decision making.

They really need to stick to what they were doing earlier this year and just wait it out for good health and to start getting the bounces. Half of the losses in the past 6 weeks were very close.

[GinobilisBaldSpot]

No more excuses now.

[golden]

No more excuses now.

Hey Dwane, are you ready for your close-up?

[Raptorsnz]

No more excuses now.

Quite the opposite, they've got the golden "we only had 27 games to incorporate Ibaka, that's not long enough, we need a training camp" excuse if it fails and we bring the same team back.