Everything DeMarre Carroll

[consmap]

There always seems to be some urgent reason to overplay our vets and shelf our youngs.

I remember last year (and many before) when Amir played extensive minutes despite his chronic ankle issues. Kind of stuff that gets you PO'd

[yabadabayolo]

You do know that Carroll said that McKechnie wanted him to sit earlier in the year but instead he played through injury and ended up having to have surgery, right?

I'm 87% sure It was the other knee that he had surgery on


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[3inthekeon]

Except he didn't end up having to have surgery. He finally decided to have surgery, even though surgery had been recommended prior and he chose not to have it.

[Axel]

At allstar weekend I'm pretty sure when Rod or Leo asked him when he'd be back, he said it was up to Alex. I take that as a good sign moving forward.

Hopefully Alex takes more control of the situation and clears him for limited minutes first, taking the decision out of Casey's hands because Casey does have a history.

[slaw]

At allstar weekend I'm pretty sure when Rod or Leo asked him when he'd be back, he said it was up to Alex. I take that as a good sign moving forward.

Hopefully Alex takes more control of the situation and clears him for limited minutes first, taking the decision out of Casey's hands because Casey does have a history.

I'll just ask the same question again: what evidence is there that the coaching staff is determining whether players are allowed to play due to injury and how many minutes they can play? I'll keep asking because the suggestion that Casey can force a player to play over the objections of the player, the medical staff and the front office is so ridiculous and nonsensical and counter to the way that every single sports organization in North America works that for anyone to continue to make this case they simply must have evidence.

Again, for this to be true, you would have to believe that Masai Ujiri, Dwane Casey, the medical staff and Demarre Carrol sit in a room and everyone says to Dwane Casey, 'hey, Carroll can't play,' and Dwane Casey says, 'hell with you Ujiri, I say he's playing.'

The decision about when Carroll comes back and how much he plays will ultimately be made by the front office with the advice of medical professionals and the training staff. It won't be made by Alex McKechnie or Casey or anyone else.

Do people really think a billion dollar organization leaves the value of its multi-million dollar assets to the whims of a middle manager? Jesus Christ.

[Axel]

I'll just ask the same question again: what evidence is there that the coaching staff is determining whether players are allowed to play due to injury and how many minutes they can play? I'll keep asking because the suggestion that Casey can force a player to play over the objections of the player, the medical staff and the front office is so ridiculous and nonsensical and counter to the way that every single sports organization in North America works that for anyone to continue to make this case they simply must have evidence.

Again, for this to be true, you would have to believe that Masai Ujiri, Dwane Casey, the medical staff and Demarre Carrol sit in a room and everyone says to Dwane Casey, 'hey, Carroll can't play,' and Dwane Casey says, 'hell with you Ujiri, I say he's playing.'

The decision about when Carroll comes back and how much he plays will ultimately be made by the front office with the advice of medical professionals and the training staff. It won't be made by Alex McKechnie or Casey or anyone else.

Do people really think a billion dollar organization leaves the value of its multi-million dollar assets to the whims of a middle manager? Jesus Christ.

So you are saying that Carroll was wrong when he said his return was "up to Alex"? He should have said its up to Masai?

[Superjudge]

Players can lie about their health, trainers ad doctors can only see so much in MRI's.

If DC wants to play, he will, when HE wants.

Thing is, players aren't giving up on multi millions of dollars, just to get out and play a few meaningless late season games.....

eff that.

[DanH]

I'll just ask the same question again: what evidence is there that the coaching staff is determining whether players are allowed to play due to injury and how many minutes they can play? I'll keep asking because the suggestion that Casey can force a player to play over the objections of the player, the medical staff and the front office is so ridiculous and nonsensical and counter to the way that every single sports organization in North America works that for anyone to continue to make this case they simply must have evidence.

Again, for this to be true, you would have to believe that Masai Ujiri, Dwane Casey, the medical staff and Demarre Carrol sit in a room and everyone says to Dwane Casey, 'hey, Carroll can't play,' and Dwane Casey says, 'hell with you Ujiri, I say he's playing.'

The decision about when Carroll comes back and how much he plays will ultimately be made by the front office with the advice of medical professionals and the training staff. It won't be made by Alex McKechnie or Casey or anyone else.

Do people really think a billion dollar organization leaves the value of its multi-million dollar assets to the whims of a middle manager? Jesus Christ.

The coaching staff has full control over how many minutes a player plays. It is their job.

Not CAN play, but how many the DO play.

The first time Carroll returned from injury, any coach with half a brain would ease him back into the rotation, since plantar fasciitis is a nasty condition that most in the basketball community are quite aware of, and it is better to be safe than sorry. Before that, to start the year, any coach with half a brain would look at Carroll's career minutes averages and ease him into a minutes load anywhere above his norm, let alone way above his norm. But no.

The ciriticisms are not some conspiracy theory. They are common sense approaches anyone would take with a player who a) historically has not played heavy minutes and b) suffered a serious injury last playoffs. They were criticisms before he even got hurt the first time.

[slaw]

The coaching staff has full control over how many minutes a player plays. It is their job.

Not CAN play, but how many the DO play.

The first time Carroll returned from injury, any coach with half a brain would ease him back into the rotation, since plantar fasciitis is a nasty condition that most in the basketball community are quite aware of, and it is better to be safe than sorry. Before that, to start the year, any coach with half a brain would look at Carroll's career minutes averages and ease him into a minutes load anywhere above his norm, let alone way above his norm. But no.

The ciriticisms are not some conspiracy theory. They are common sense approaches anyone would take with a player who a) historically has not played heavy minutes and b) suffered a serious injury last playoffs. They were criticisms before he even got hurt the first time.

Um, no. A coaching staff does not control how many minutes a player coming back from injury plays if the front office tells them the player is on a minutes restriction then he is on a minutes restriction. That is not determined by the coaching staff. Why do you think coaches get so pissed off with minute restrictions? Cause the control they normally have is wrested from them. This is so trite I would have thought it went without saying.

I think we may be talking past each other, though. I agree that a coaching staff certainly can decide to limit a guy's minutes for a variety of reasons, including if they think he needs fewer minutes cause of fatigue, coming off injury, etc. Should they have played Carroll less? yeah, in hindsight they should have. Would it have mattered? Doesn't seem like it. Sounds like this was something that would have been done regardless. But that is far different from saying Carroll should have been on a minutes restriction, which is something that everyone knows isn't imposed by a coaching staff but by the higher ups. If you want to point fingers point them at Ujiri and co. not Casey. If Carroll is not on a minutes restriction then the coach is going to play him and the player is going to demand to be played. If they wanted him sat, then the front office should have dictated it. That's their job.

[Cody73]

It's also up to the athlete.

If he felt he could go, he was gonna play. That's the kind of guy DeMarre is. I mean.... he played on a severe bone bruise in the playoffs last year.

[DanH]

It's also up to the athlete.

If he felt he could go, he was gonna play. That's the kind of guy DeMarre is. I mean.... he played on a severe bone bruise in the playoffs last year.

There's playing through injuries in the playoffs and there's playing through injuries in November. One is brave (and kind of stupid, but understandable). The other is just stupid.

[Axel]

Um, no. A coaching staff does not control how many minutes a player coming back from injury plays if the front office tells them the player is on a minutes restriction then he is on a minutes restriction. That is not determined by the coaching staff. Why do you think coaches get so pissed off with minute restrictions? Cause the control they normally have is wrested from them. This is so trite I would have thought it went without saying.

I think we may be talking past each other, though. I agree that a coaching staff certainly can decide to limit a guy's minutes for a variety of reasons, including if they think he needs fewer minutes cause of fatigue, coming off injury, etc. Should they have played Carroll less? yeah, in hindsight they should have. Would it have mattered? Doesn't seem like it. Sounds like this was something that would have been done regardless. But that is far different from saying Carroll should have been on a minutes restriction, which is something that everyone knows isn't imposed by a coaching staff but by the higher ups. If you want to point fingers point them at Ujiri and co. not Casey. If Carroll is not on a minutes restriction then the coach is going to play him and the player is going to demand to be played. If they wanted him sat, then the front office should have dictated it. That's their job.

So really, you are admitting that it is the coaches job and role to control the minutes unless the front office has dictated a minute's restriction to over-rule the coaches wishes; yet somehow wish to absolve Casey from any responsibility with Carroll's minutes? The fact is that our GM is hands off and therefore not "wresting control control away from the coach" ; and your opinion is that it is not the coaches fault for the minutes because the GM didn't take control over the coaches responsibility. Sounds like you want a GM who doesn't trust his coach to do the smart thing, therefore pissing off the coach. Sadly, our GM seems to trust everyone to do their job, perhaps to a fault in some cases.

[slaw]

So really, you are admitting that it is the coaches job and role to control the minutes unless the front office has dictated a minute's restriction to over-rule the coaches wishes; yet somehow wish to absolve Casey from any responsibility with Carroll's minutes? The fact is that our GM is hands off and therefore not "wresting control control away from the coach" ; and your opinion is that it is not the coaches fault for the minutes because the GM didn't take control over the coaches responsibility. Sounds like you want a GM who doesn't trust his coach to do the smart thing, therefore pissing off the coach. Sadly, our GM seems to trust everyone to do their job, perhaps to a fault in some cases.

What? Every front office in the NBA imposes minutes restrictions, including Toronto. In fact, this just happened. With the same player. Jesus Christ. The front office put a minutes restriction on Carroll. Like not even two months ago. Dwane Casey didn't impose it, the front office did. Like, this just happened. Weeks ago. And, again, every NBA team works like this. Even hands-off Ujiri who just did it. With this player. Weeks ago. It's got nothing to do with what I want. That is just how it is.

Again, do people seriously think that Casey can just override the front office and medical staff and player? Carroll was playing because he wanted to play and the front office was fine with it cause they clearly didn't have enough evidence to shut him down or limit his minutes. The coaching staff aren't medical professionals. If the player is saying I want to play and the front office says he is playing then the coach is going to play him.

[KHD]

What? Every front office in the NBA imposes minutes restrictions, including Toronto. In fact, this just happened. With the same player. Jesus Christ. The front office put a minutes restriction on Carroll. Like not even two months ago. Dwane Casey didn't impose it, the front office did. Like, this just happened. Weeks ago. And, again, every NBA team works like this. Even hands-off Ujiri who just did it. With this player. Weeks ago. It's got nothing to do with what I want. That is just how it is.

Again, do people seriously think that Casey can just override the front office and medical staff and player? Carroll was playing because he wanted to play and the front office was fine with it cause they clearly didn't have enough evidence to shut him down or limit his minutes. The coaching staff aren't medical professionals. If the player is saying I want to play and the front office says he is playing then the coach is going to play him.

Ignorance is not a defence. It's common sense that players like Carroll, coming off of that injury (or really any player) should not be playing such heavy minutes.

Just because there was no official minute restriction doesn't mean Casey isn't at fault for letting guys minutes get out of hand.

[Miekenstien]

Ignorance is not a defence. It's common sense that players like Carroll, coming off of that injury (or really any player) should not be playing such heavy minutes.

Just because there was no official minute restriction doesn't mean Casey isn't at fault for letting guys minutes get out of hand.

it also isn't an excuse for demarre not speaking up.