Everything Bismack Biyombo

[Superjudge]

for what I want in a center, I like BB more the JV.

[OldSkoolCool]

I dont see Biz as being a better paint and rim protector.

JV routinely is better at containing penetration and is faster with the help defense. Overall he is the better defender, but Biz does get those highlight blocks.

Highlight blocks does not equal solid defense.

[Superjudge]

Well, I see JV as slow, and often a non threat. BB is much more than a guy getting the odd block, he's a good defender.

[OldSkoolCool]

Well, I see JV as slow, and often a non threat. BB is much more than a guy getting the odd block, he's a good defender.

He is a good defender. What Im saying is JV is better

[Chr1s1anL]

He is a good defender. What Im saying is JV is better

I dont see Biz as being a better paint and rim protector.

JV routinely is better at containing penetration and is faster with the help defense. Overall he is the better defender, but Biz does get those highlight blocks.

Highlight blocks does not equal solid defense.

JV isn't better though. Biz one of the best rim protectors in the league. His in the same conversations with player like Whiteside, DJ etc.

[Chr1s1anL]

Jackson seems like a Lowry clone

[white men can't jump]

JV isn't better though. Biz one of the best rim protectors in the league. His in the same conversations with player like Whiteside, DJ etc.

Yeah, when you talk about him, not when most other people do.

If he's such an amazing defender, why did his previous team let him walk so easily? Clifford is a better defensive coach than Casey, and the Hornets have performed better on that end under him, so he clearly values D. Yet this supposed DPOY type player according to you was jettisoned for nothing, and their D hasn't suffered for it.

The problem with this conversation is you think the C is supposed to be some sort of miracle defensive player. You know how good the Clips have been defensively with DJ? Not at all at times and generally inconsistent, because one man can't cover up the mistakes of an entire team.

Biyombo is not that good defensively. He doesn't make a big difference on shooters or quicker players, especially since he defends stupidly and with arrogance. He gets up on guys because he thinks he can stay in front, and then gets beat. He gets bullied in the post by bigger guys. He frequently sags off bigs who are shooters cheating into the lane for blocks thinking he can recover. He makes plenty of defensive mistakes but he does not get benched for them, and also has the luxury of playing more of his minutes with a better defensive unit.

And this doesn't even get into offence. You think a team can make a serious run with Biyombo? I'm curious what you think of GSW then. The team you think is defining trends in this league (with a roster that is pretty much impossible to replicate) sat Bogut in the Finals last year a lot. A player who's much more useful offensively than Biyombo was a liability to a team with much better offensive players than we've got. You just can't get very far if you're playing 4 on 5 (or worse) for significant stretches on either end. Great teams will figure you out fast and make you pay. And the level of elite players you need to have to even try and get away with that is something we don't have.

[Chr1s1anL]

Yeah, when you talk about him, not when most other people do.

If he's such an amazing defender, why did his previous team let him walk so easily? Clifford is a better defensive coach than Casey, and the Hornets have performed better on that end under him, so he clearly values D. Yet this supposed DPOY type player according to you was jettisoned for nothing, and their D hasn't suffered for it.

The problem with this conversation is you think the C is supposed to be some sort of miracle defensive player. You know how good the Clips have been defensively with DJ? Not at all at times and generally inconsistent, because one man can't cover up the mistakes of an entire team.

Biyombo is not that good defensively. He doesn't make a big difference on shooters or quicker players, especially since he defends stupidly and with arrogance. He gets up on guys because he thinks he can stay in front, and then gets beat. He gets bullied in the post by bigger guys. He frequently sags off bigs who are shooters cheating into the lane for blocks thinking he can recover. He makes plenty of defensive mistakes but he does not get benched for them, and also has the luxury of playing more of his minutes with a better defensive unit.

And this doesn't even get into offence. You think a team can make a serious run with Biyombo? I'm curious what you think of GSW then. The team you think is defining trends in this league (with a roster that is pretty much impossible to replicate) sat Bogut in the Finals last year a lot. A player who's much more useful offensively than Biyombo was a liability to a team with much better offensive players than we've got. You just can't get very far if you're playing 4 on 5 (or worse) for significant stretches on either end. Great teams will figure you out fast and make you pay. And the level of elite players you need to have to even try and get away with that is something we don't have.

Never said he was a defensive player of the year type player but he does have the potential to be.

This whole playing 4 on 5 is BS. How is that even possible when he plays on our most productive 5 man lineup. His gotten a lot better from the beginning of the year. The guy is shooting .540 from the field. 571 in March. I'm the last 5 games his shooting 630 from the field.

[white men can't jump]

Never said he was a defensive player of the year type player but he does have the potential to be.

This whole playing 4 on 5 is BS. How is that even possible when he plays on our most productive 5 man lineup. His gotten a lot better from the beginning of the year. The guy is shooting .540 from the field. 571 in March. I'm the last 5 games his shooting 630 from the field.

Right, because raw FG% is the only true indicator of offensive impact....fuck man

Oh well, what can I expect from someone who seemingly can't spell their own name

[Chr1s1anL]

Right, because raw FG% is the only true indicator of offensive impact....fuck man

Oh well, what can I expect from someone who seemingly can't spell their own name

Good one. I've seen it before though when you can't back up your case get to the personal insults.

Since his catching and finishing what makes the offense 4 on 5. Please elaborate. I'm all ears.

[3inthekeon]

Charlotte let Biyombo go, even though he was their best defensive big, because of his horrific offence.

The only people slagging Biyombo's defensive play are JV uber-fans. Name one neutral observer who doesn't think Biyombo is at least a very good defender..

[white men can't jump]

Good one. I've seen it before though when you can't back up your case get to the personal insults.

Since his catching and finishing what makes the offense 4 on 5. Please elaborate. I'm all ears.

That you can't pass it to him a good chunk of the time (his catching isn't good by the way, and that's part of the reason guys don't even try to pass to him that much). You want to know what his %s are?

BBref
0-3 - .661%
3-10 - .283
10-16 - .381
16-23 - .300
3P - .000

So he's literally a terrible offensive player if he's not directly at the basket. That means the opposing D does not have to respect him at all while he's on the court. His defender sags off him pretty much the whole time he's on the court. That is why it si 4 on 5 offence. If he's only useful at catching and finishing when he's wide open under the rim, it means he's largely not going to have much impact there because those passes are not going to be available. To say nothing of his inability to catch or finish with any kind of improvisation (he's great at going straight up for a dunk, but if he has to adjust in any way the outcome is completely random, half the time the ball just squirts out of his hands). I mean last game Wright gave him a couple of soft, easy passes that he flat out fumbled badly because of his awful hands, and those were right at the bucket...so you can't even always get something from him when he is wide open right at the bucket. Can't blame Wright, those are plays 95% of bigs at this level will at least catch, if not also finish, but he hasn't played enough with Biyombo to realize that he's part of that tiny minority that sucks balls at that.

Meanwhile, the opponent can trap more when we try to run screen plays with Biyombo (they don't care about him rolling at all). His man will cheat to clog up space in the mid-range and interior to dissuade drivers. He is purely a garbageman on offence, and makes everyone's life harder on that end when he's out there. This has been backed up throughout the season by the eye test and stats people have laid out, like you know, most players %s dipping when he's on the court.

I don't bother trying to give you evidence and am not going to waste more of my time now because you probably won't understand it anyway. You'll see what you want to see and will never be convinced otherwise.

I mean here you are defending Biyombo with FG%, then in other posts you want to trade for Boogie whose FG% is .449. So since it's THE offensive indicator, I guess we'd actually be playing 4 on 5 if we had Boogie, right? So yeah, it's not my fault you can't figure out how to make a sensible argument.

[Chr1s1anL]

That you can't pass it to him a good chunk of the time (his catching isn't good by the way, and that's part of the reason guys don't even try to pass to him that much). You want to know what his %s are?

BBref
0-3 - .661%
3-10 - .283
10-16 - .381
16-23 - .300
3P - .000

So he's literally a terrible offensive player if he's not directly at the basket. That means the opposing D does not have to respect him at all while he's on the court. His defender sags off him pretty much the whole time he's on the court. That is why it si 4 on 5 offence. If he's only useful at catching and finishing when he's wide open under the rim, it means he's largely not going to have much impact there because those passes are not going to be available. To say nothing of his inability to catch or finish with any kind of improvisation (he's great at going straight up for a dunk, but if he has to adjust in any way the outcome is completely random, half the time the ball just squirts out of his hands). I mean last game Wright gave him a couple of soft, easy passes that he flat out fumbled badly because of his awful hands, and those were right at the bucket...so you can't even always get something from him when he is wide open right at the bucket. Can't blame Wright, those are plays 95% of bigs at this level will at least catch, if not also finish, but he hasn't played enough with Biyombo to realize that he's part of that tiny minority that sucks balls at that.

Meanwhile, the opponent can trap more when we try to run screen plays with Biyombo (they don't care about him rolling at all). His man will cheat to clog up space in the mid-range and interior to dissuade drivers. He is purely a garbageman on offence, and makes everyone's life harder on that end when he's out there. This has been backed up throughout the season by the eye test and stats people have laid out, like you know, most players %s dipping when he's on the court.

I don't bother trying to give you evidence and am not going to waste more of my time now because you probably won't understand it anyway. You'll see what you want to see and will never be convinced otherwise.

I mean here you are defending Biyombo with FG%, then in other posts you want to trade for Boogie whose FG% is .449. So since it's THE offensive indicator, I guess we'd actually be playing 4 on 5 if we had Boogie, right? So yeah, it's not my fault you can't figure out how to make a sensible argument.

The fact that he shoots a high percentage means you can't leave him alone around the paint. I think raps backcourt is better off with a low usage C. I'm not trying to say that his great on offense. All I'm saying is this 4 on 5 is overblown. If you able to be on one of the best 5 man lineups in the league it should say something. That lineup isn't being successful despite of BB.

If you don't think that BB is a good defender than I don't know what to tell you. The numbers and the game tape says different. I know the thought of JV being moved gets you a little sensitive but come on man.

[white men can't jump]

Charlotte let Biyombo go, even though he was their best defensive big, because of his horrific offence.

The only people slagging Biyombo's defensive play are JV uber-fans. Name one neutral observer who doesn't think Biyombo is at least a very good defender..

I don't think he's a bad defender, but I don't think he's that much, or possibly at all better than JV. I wouldn't call Biyombo a very good defender. I'd call him a good shotblocker and generally good help defender. He's not that good a man defender, and has his own set of problems that are different from JV's.

The real issue to me is that the defensive problems the Raps have and have had over the years are not closely related to our play at C. We have serious issues containing penetration and defending the point of attack. If this fails your D is always going to suffer, and no centre can make up for all the issues it causes.

You know what else people don't talk about? Cojo (who Biyombo plays a good chunk of his minutes with), who to me has actually been the biggest defensive acquisition we've made (what with Carroll being injured and all). He is the only guy who consistently defends the ballhandler well. He understands how to play angles and try to force the guy where you want. He's much better than our other guys at going around screens, specifically at angling himself to prevent the ballhandler from "hugging" the screen and forcing them to adjust their drive.

But that's the weird thing about how conversations go about D in the NBA. People generally don't give enough attention to perimeter defenders, nor do they account for the importance of pace and offensive execution impacting your defensive performance. I don't think there's a significant defensive dropoff from JV to Biyombo, if any at all, and problems have a lot to do with how we play on both ends.

[white men can't jump]

The fact that he shoots a high percentage means you can't leave him alone around the paint. I think raps backcourt is better off with a low usage C. I'm not trying to say that his great on offense. All I'm saying is this 4 on 5 is overblown. If you able to be on one of the best 5 man lineups in the league it should say something. That lineup isn't being successful despite of BB.

If you don't think that BB is a good defender than I don't know what to tell you. The numbers and the game tape says different. I know the thought of JV being moved gets you a little sensitive but come on man.

You're misreading the stat. The fact that his % is high is largely BECAUSE he's left alone.