Everything Bismack Biyombo

[Modeliukas]

Wait what? JV's usage isn't 14%, it IS 20% (well 19.9% to be exact). EDIT: My bad didn't see someone already pointed this out

I agree though trading JV for DMo would be incredibly stupid. If we're trading JV I want to see a bonafide star in this league coming back the other way or we have completely fucked up.

A healthy DMo like last season before injuries would not be stupid at all. Now it is pretty stupid. He barely gets playing time and is way out of shape.

[JWash]

Want to preface this by saying that I think JV is clear-cut better than Biyombo.

However I think there is a situation in which Biyombo could be a starting caliber center. And that is in the case where Jonas is traded for a star-caliber power forward with range. The only example of a guy who could be available that comes to mind is DeMarcus Cousins, who currently doesn't have great advanced stats but that's simply because he's handling the highest usage in the league at 34.6%, dropping him to the mid-high 20s on our team would likely see a boost to his WS/48 and oRTG stats.

Biyombo does measure out similarly to Ben Wallace. I don't think he's as good, but looking at the stats there's a compelling argument to be made.

Things like BLK%, TOV%, OREB%, DREB% and REB% are really similar. His WS/48 has hovered around .150ish the past 3 seasons which is a shade below what Wallace was at most of the time, but not quite at the level of peak Wallace (.190 WS/48). He's got the sub 100 dRTG and the plus 110 oRTG. Of course his dRTG isn't approaching low 90s or even the insane 87 that Ben had in the championship year, although us not being as good a defensive team as those Pistons probably plays a role in that. Biyombo's actually more efficient offensively than Ben was, as he finishes around the rim better (but still pretty bad for a center), gets fouled more and is actually an OK free-throw shooter at 67% this year. Biyombo's scoring efficiency isn't great for a big, but it's not bad overall at a hair below 55 TS%.

Idk I just find it to be interesting that a lot of their statistics are really similar. The eye test in terms of play style probably checks out, but back when I was watching those Pistons teams I definitely got the feeling that Big Ben was commanding the defense moreso than I get it from Biyombo. This is further confirmed by Ben's insane defensive impact numbers (dRTG, DWS, etc) However Ben came into the league at the age that Biyombo is right now, so who knows if this is the best BB can be. Also Big Ben played next to Sheed who was elite defensively in his own right.

[Axel]

Biyombo does measure out similarly to Ben Wallace. I don't think he's as good, but looking at the stats there's a compelling argument to be made.

Things like BLK%, TOV%, OREB%, DREB% and REB% are really similar. His WS/48 has hovered around .150ish the past 3 seasons which is a shade below what Wallace was at most of the time, but not quite at the level of peak Wallace (.190 WS/48). He's got the sub 100 dRTG and the plus 110 oRTG. Of course his dRTG isn't approaching low 90s or even the insane 87 that Ben had in the championship year, although us not being as good a defensive team as those Pistons probably plays a role in that. Biyombo's actually more efficient offensively than Ben was, as he finishes around the rim better (but still pretty bad for a center), gets fouled more and is actually an OK free-throw shooter at 67% this year. Biyombo's scoring efficiency isn't great for a big, but it's not bad overall at a hair below 55 TS%.

Idk I just find it to be interesting that a lot of their statistics are really similar. The eye test in terms of play style probably checks out, but back when I was watching those Pistons teams I definitely got the feeling that Big Ben was commanding the defense moreso than I get it from Biyombo. This is further confirmed by Ben's insane defensive impact numbers (dRTG, DWS, etc) However Ben came into the league at the age that Biyombo is right now, so who knows if this is the best BB can be. Also Big Ben played next to Sheed who was elite defensively in his own right.

There have been numerous posts explaining why the comparison with Wallace is wrong.

Wallace was elite at generating steals for the C position with 2.3 steals per 100. He would simply strip opposing bigs around the hoop. Biyombo is below average for the position at 0.6. Wallace has 5 seasons in the top 50 rankings for steals per 100 by a center of All-Time. Biyombo ranks 71st of 76 on the season.

Wallace also didn't foul much, 3.4 per 100 possessions. Biyombo is at 5.4. The ability to contest shots without fouling is huge for a defence.

Wallace was also not as bad on offence because he could pass. 2.4 assists per 100 compared to Biyombo's career avg of 0.7 (hard to get assists when you struggle to catch the ball).

Ben Wallace wasn't considered a shot blocker. Biyombo is, yet they do put up similar stats in blocks. Wallace defended by contesting shots without fouling, generating steals and cleaning up the glass. Biyombo can 1 of those things. Not stats or eye test should support this ridiculous comparison. Biyombo's strongest parts of his game are comparable to Wallace's weakest, but that is a great disservice to how great Ben Wallace was to ignore his strengths.

[JWash]

That's news to me that someone who once led the league in blocks and was over 2.0 per game for his career wasn't known as a shot blocker...

Rest of that makes sense though

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[Chr1s1anL]

There have been numerous posts explaining why the comparison with Wallace is wrong.

Wallace was elite at generating steals for the C position with 2.3 steals per 100. He would simply strip opposing bigs around the hoop. Biyombo is below average for the position at 0.6. Wallace has 5 seasons in the top 50 rankings for steals per 100 by a center of All-Time. Biyombo ranks 71st of 76 on the season.

Wallace also didn't foul much, 3.4 per 100 possessions. Biyombo is at 5.4. The ability to contest shots without fouling is huge for a defence.

Wallace was also not as bad on offence because he could pass. 2.4 assists per 100 compared to Biyombo's career avg of 0.7 (hard to get assists when you struggle to catch the ball).

Ben Wallace wasn't considered a shot blocker. Biyombo is, yet they do put up similar stats in blocks. Wallace defended by contesting shots without fouling, generating steals and cleaning up the glass. Biyombo can 1 of those things. Not stats or eye test should support this ridiculous comparison. Biyombo's strongest parts of his game are comparable to Wallace's weakest, but that is a great disservice to how great Ben Wallace was to ignore his strengths.

Everything you just mention can be improved. The dude is 23 years old. We haven't even seen his best basketball yet .

[Axel]

That's news to me that someone who once led the league in blocks and was over 2.0 per game for his career wasn't known as a shot blocker...

Rest of that makes sense though

But he wasn't because that wasn't the strength of his game. Lots of defenders can get blocks (like Biyombo) but what made Ben special was the other stuff. That's what got him DPOY.

[Axel]

Everything Bismack Biyombo

Everything you just mention can be improved. The dude is 23 years old. We haven't even seen his best basketball yet .

Lol ok man. Guess he's he next Hakeem then because he can improve EVERYTHING from poor to elite.

[Chr1s1anL]

Lol ok man. Guess he's he next Hakeem then because he can improve EVERYTHING from poor to elite.

I didn't say that but, a lot of those things you mention can be improved on by just getting more experience.

[JWash]

Btw like I said I wasn't trying to advocate starting bismack. Jv is a better player so as long as he's here that makes zero sense. However I'm wondering if bismack can become or is a starting caliber center.

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[Chr1s1anL]

Btw like I said I wasn't trying to advocate starting bismack. Jv is a better player so as long as he's here that makes zero sense. However I'm wondering if bismack can become or is a starting caliber center.

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I never said that BB should start over JV. All I've been saying is that BB has earned more minutes when JV returns. The two are very valuable to the team. We need both of them.

[Axel]

Btw like I said I wasn't trying to advocate starting bismack. Jv is a better player so as long as he's here that makes zero sense. However I'm wondering if bismack can become or is a starting caliber center.

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And that is fine, but Ben Wallace comparisons are ridiculous.

[raptors999]

I never said that BB should start over JV. All I've been saying is that BB has earned more minutes when JV returns. That seem like the Casey. The two very valuable to the team. We need both of them.

John Salmons 2.0, a couple of good games leads to multiple really awful crunch time offensive possesion with marginal if any increase in defense. Biz playing too many minutes and ending games will cost game both in the regular season and playoffs

[Chr1s1anL]

Still remember all the hate I got for first making that comparison with Ben Wallace. Since than we've had players, announcers, now even RR make the comparisons. If I'm BB I watching all kind of film on Big Ben.

[Axel]

I didn't say that but, a lot of those things you mention can be improved on by just getting more experience.

You expect him to go from poor (worse than JV) to all time elite.

[3inthekeon]

This is from an offseason Vantage Sports article.

Bismack’s overall defense is fantastic, allowing the eighth-fewest Points Against per Shot among all centers last season at 0.87, just slightly better than Tim Duncan.

That said, JV is the better overall player. No way I would take minutes away from him.