Everything VanVleet

[WJF]

This is exactly what I was talking about. We overrate the shit out of NAW because he's Canadian.

This is his 4th year in the NBA. He's played 177 NBA games. Why are we using a 5 game sample size? Because it's the only one that makes him look good.

Id be fine with NAW as a bench piece, but if you think he's worth an all star and a 2nd round pick then you need to take off the maple colored glasses.

Considering it's a FVV for Mike Conley deal I am talking about with NAW as a throw in, you may want to gear down a bit before you tell me how I view a prospect.

I chose his 5 most recent games as it was easy and demonstrated his upside still. I also stated he had good runs in New Orleans at times, averaging double digit scoring for them in 20/21 and 21/22, albeit on less than stellar percentages.

I also stated that I am not sold on trading FVV but was looking at realistic options. A declining Conley with a prospect for a potentially stagnant Fred seems like a realistic type of deal. Am I saying it should happen, no. Am I saying it is a realistic option, yes.

[golden]

Considering it's a FVV for Mike Conley deal I am talking about with NAW as a throw in, you may want to gear down a bit before you tell me how I view a prospect.

I chose his 5 most recent games as it was easy and demonstrated his upside still. I also stated he had good runs in New Orleans at times, averaging double digit scoring for them in 20/21 and 21/22, albeit on less than stellar percentages.

I also stated that I am not sold on trading FVV but was looking at realistic options. A declining Conley with a prospect for a potentially stagnant Fred seems like a realistic type of deal. Am I saying it should happen, no. Am I saying it is a realistic option, yes.

[WJF]

Kind of a shitty return for Fred. NAW gets way way overrated here because he's Canadian. If he was from USA no one would want him. Conley is old and washed. 10pts per game on 39.5% FG. I'm positive we can do better than that.

So Fred's 38% from the field is better? Maybe it's Mike's 38% 3 point shooting to Fred's 32% or his career high 7.7 assists to Fred's 6.4?

Feel free to come op with something better...

[DanH]

So Fred's 38% from the field is better? Maybe it's Mike's 38% 3 point shooting to Fred's 32% or his career high 7.7 assists to Fred's 6.4?

Feel free to come op with something better...

Have to say, this is probably about as good an example as one could draw up of selling low, if nothing else.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Have to say, this is probably about as good an example as one could draw up of selling low, if nothing else.

would you be against this move

[Kagemusha]

Have to say, this is probably about as good an example as one could draw up of selling low, if nothing else.

Unfortunately it is what it is.
His value is low at this point and other GMs are not dumb.

[Limited Upside]

would you be against this move

Absolutely against.

I guess everyone assuming FVV is washed would make this move. But I think that's a leap the front office won't make just yet. And if they do decide he's washed, they'll still look for a lot more than Conley and NAW in return. Like, in what way does that trade do anything at all for the Raptors, either immediately or later? NAW really isn't very good, and despite what you may think of Fred, he's still as good or better than Conley TODAY, let alone assuming he eventually gets out of the current slump.

I swear, this place is more and more like RealGM every day.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Absolutely against.

I guess everyone assuming FVV is washed would make this move. But I think that's a leap the front office won't make just yet. And if they do decide he's washed, they'll still look for a lot more than Conley and NAW in return. Like, in what way does that trade do anything at all for the Raptors, either immediately or later? NAW really isn't very good, and despite what you may think of Fred, he's still as good or better than Conley TODAY, let alone assuming he eventually gets out of the current slump.

I swear, this place is more and more like RealGM every day.

hey i just asked I think you can get more. I have a trade in mind but I wont suggest it yet

[Yuri Gagarin]

Scottie is our future pg though. This is the position he wants to play. Doesnt matter if he hasnt been great at it hes young and is the type of big pg that is the future. He’ll only get better at the job. So we dont need conley. If we trade fred and attachments it should be for a C and/or a good scoring sg.

the bamba trade makes more sense to me. We have a solid C who fits our style and needs and we can take our time with koloko.

scottie/trent/OG/pascal/bamba and stick with that lineup every night until trade deadline and reevaluate. If needed use trent and assets for a good scoring sg or keep trent and trade assets for a backup combo guard

[LJ2]

Scottie is our future pg though. This is the position he wants to play. Doesnt matter if he hasnt been great at it hes young and is the type of big pg that is the future. He’ll only get better at the job. So we dont need conley. If we trade fred and attachments it should be for a C and/or a good scoring sg.

the bamba trade makes more sense to me. We have a solid C who fits our style and needs and we can take our time with koloko.

scottie/trent/OG/pascal/bamba and stick with that lineup every night until trade deadline and reevaluate. If needed use trent and assets for a good scoring sg or keep trent and trade assets for a backup combo guard

This isn't a team that blew it up and is starting from scratch though, like say Houston. They have aspirations to stay competitive and win games while bringing Scottie, Precious and (maybe)Trent along. Can't just give Barnes the reigns and an unlimited leash on this team. If that was the case Pascal and Fred would probably have been traded by now.

[Yuri Gagarin]

Absolutely against.

I guess everyone assuming FVV is washed would make this move. But I think that's a leap the front office won't make just yet. And if they do decide he's washed, they'll still look for a lot more than Conley and NAW in return. Like, in what way does that trade do anything at all for the Raptors, either immediately or later? NAW really isn't very good, and despite what you may think of Fred, he's still as good or better than Conley TODAY, let alone assuming he eventually gets out of the current slump.

I swear, this place is more and more like RealGM every day.

Fred is undersized and had average speed when he was 24. How much more do you expect to squeeze out of this guy?

Im sure fred will bounce back tonight or next week but we’re talking about 2024/2025/2026. We have to project and he he doesnt fit long term his value is highest now. If its tough getting value for him now wait til hes older and getting 30+ a year

[Yuri Gagarin]

This isn't a team that blew it up and is starting from scratch though, like say Houston. They have aspirations to stay competitive and win games while bringing Scottie, Precious and (maybe)Trent along. Can't just give Barnes the reigns and an unlimited leash on this team. If that was the case Pascal and Fred would probably have been traded by now.

Its not radical or a blow up. scottie has played pg already. In place of freddy as pg maybe lateral now but each week itll get better and we’d have bamba. Then reevaluate in a few months. Sure we want to stay competitive but the team as it stands isnt going far this year or next.

[Limited Upside]

Fred is undersized and had average speed when he was 24. How much more do you expect to squeeze out of this guy?

Im sure fred will bounce back tonight or next week but we’re talking about 2024/2025/2026. We have to project and he he doesnt fit long term his value is highest now. If its tough getting value for him now wait til hes older and getting 30+ a year

If he returns to playing the way he was pre-injury last year, or even pre-injury this year (he was quite good), then I'm not worried about 2026. He'll contribute to a winning team/culture just as he always has, plus be a moveable contract ($25-28M would be fine under the new cap) at any point. If he continues to decline, then you just let him walk, as opposed to bringing back non-contributors like Conley and NAW.

All of this discussion is predicated on either "he's washed" when that's by no means the obvious outcome here, or "he doesn't fit" which also has little evidence to support it.

Again, we're looking at a 4-week or so stretch here where he's been un-good; he was fine at the beginning of the season, and was doing all the things people wanted him to (more off-ball, more spot-up 3s, etc.). Other than when he was injured last year, that's just not been the arc of his career. I'd lean more toward the "slump" vs. "washed" argument at this point. And when he's healthy and playing well, there are few shooters in the league who are better, and even fewer PG help defenders who are better.

[Limited Upside]

Its not radical or a blow up. scottie has played pg already. In place of freddy as pg maybe lateral now but each week itll get better and we’d have bamba. Then reevaluate in a few months. Sure we want to stay competitive but the team as it stands isnt going far this year or next.

Bamba isn't as good as Precious. And Scottie isn't fit to run the point yet. It's far from a lateral move, and FVV is already sharing the point with Scottie and Pascal enough to let them develop as ball-handlers. Scottie's nowhere good enough yet with the ball in his hands to run a team - good passer, not a good ball-handler. Yet.

[Primer]

So Fred's 38% from the field is better? Maybe it's Mike's 38% 3 point shooting to Fred's 32% or his career high 7.7 assists to Fred's 6.4?

Feel free to come op with something better...

Conley is 35 years old. Fred is 28. That's well out of their prime VS the beginning of their prime.

Conley has been steadily declining for 2 seasons (as expected he's 35!). Fred is down right now but coming off his best season ever.

Why in the world would we want Conley? That trade proposal only makes sense if we really want NAW. Conley is garbage salary filler. He's very old and washed up.