Everything VanVleet

[Bonus Jonas]

And to say Gary doesn’t have upside is premature. He’s closing in on being a 20ppg player, actually is over 20 per36 and has improved his points per36 pretty much every season. He’s scoring at a better rate this season than any of Fred’s career.

[Kagemusha]

We don't need a true PG but we need ball handlers. Scottie is still not that good at handling the ball. Have a quick guard cover him and he's going to lose it or get rattled.

Bones! Bones! Bones!

[Bonus Jonas]

We don't need a true PG but we need ball handlers. Scottie is still not that good at handling the ball. Have a quick guard cover him and he's going to lose it or get rattled. We need options there. Pascal is not spacing the floor. Nobody is really covering him outside the paint. He gets usually wide open looks and is a below average shooter. He can make mid range shots but he's shooting where Barnes likes to shoot too. We have had many games where we go on 4-5 minute stretches where we cannot get a field goal.. and that's with both Scottie and Pascal on the court. You can't have that happen in the NBA. You need real spacers so there is more room in the paint for Scottie to work in. Ideally you have Scottie with 4 shooters. Just like with Giannis and the Bucks.

I did the math.. $130M on a 4 year deal would be 24% of the cap. I would want him at 20-21% of the cap, and I think we could get it down to that. If not then yeah I'm okay with sending him out too. I do know the cap will rise though. So 24% of the cap in 2023-2024, could end up being 20-21% in later years.

Pascal absolutely spreads the floor with his midrange. That’s an asinine take to say he doesn’t. He’s shooting better percentages than Fred from inside the 3 point line at literally every interval.

And that’s not even down to Fred’s off year. He’s consistently had better midrange numbers than Fred his whole career. Siakam’s midrange is actually really good.

[golden]

We don't need a true PG but we need ball handlers. Scottie is still not that good at handling the ball. Have a quick guard cover him and he's going to lose it or get rattled. We need options there. Pascal is not spacing the floor. Nobody is really covering him outside the paint. He gets usually wide open looks and is a below average shooter. He can make mid range shots but he's shooting where Barnes likes to shoot too. We have had many games where we go on 4-5 minute stretches where we cannot get a field goal.. and that's with both Scottie and Pascal on the court. You can't have that happen in the NBA. You need real spacers so there is more room in the paint for Scottie to work in. Ideally you have Scottie with 4 shooters. Just like with Giannis and the Bucks.

I did the math.. $130M on a 4 year deal would be 24% of the cap. I would want him at 20-21% of the cap, and I think we could get it down to that. If not then yeah I'm okay with sending him out too. I do know the cap will rise though. So 24% of the cap in 2023-2024, could end up being 20-21% in later years.

You know who is an under-the-radar combo guard who can replace Fred for cheap? Shake Milton.

Shake put up 21pts/5reb/6ast this year as a starter... starting 9 games at PG when some or all of Harden, Embiid & Maxey were injured. Some of those starting lineups were absolute trash, but Milton helped the Sixers go 4-4 during a stretch of games where they should have been anilhilated.

He also won the other game he started, so he's 5-4 as a starter. Much better record than Fred. Also shooting 39.4% from 3 this year.

He's a UFA this off-season.

[G__Deane]

We don't need a true PG but we need ball handlers. Scottie is still not that good at handling the ball. Have a quick guard cover him and he's going to lose it or get rattled. We need options there. Pascal is not spacing the floor. Nobody is really covering him outside the paint. He gets usually wide open looks and is a below average shooter. He can make mid range shots but he's shooting where Barnes likes to shoot too. We have had many games where we go on 4-5 minute stretches where we cannot get a field goal.. and that's with both Scottie and Pascal on the court. You can't have that happen in the NBA. You need real spacers so there is more room in the paint for Scottie to work in. Ideally you have Scottie with 4 shooters. Just like with Giannis and the Bucks.

I did the math.. $130M on a 4 year deal would be 24% of the cap. I would want him at 20-21% of the cap, and I think we could get it down to that. If not then yeah I'm okay with sending him out too. I do know the cap will rise though. So 24% of the cap in 2023-2024, could end up being 20-21% in later years.

Or 21% of trhe cap today can be even less when the cap rises, giving you more money to sign talent!

[planetmars]

Pascal absolutely spreads the floor with his midrange. That’s an asinine take to say he doesn’t. He’s shooting better percentages than Fred from inside the 3 point line at literally every interval.

And that’s not even down to Fred’s off year. He’s consistently had better midrange numbers than Fred his whole career. Siakam’s midrange is actually really good.

So Scottie has the ball and he's going to pass it to Pascal so he can ISO at the top of the key? What's the strategy? Or we're just taking long 2's all day?

Look at real contenders. They have 3pt shooters to surround guys that can't shoot themselves. Like with Milwaukee and how they're doing it. Lebron just had a load of shooters back in Cleveland.

Pascal's teams during our chip run (and the year after) were super awesome.. but he also had Kyle (shooter), Mark (shooter), Kawhi (shooter), Serge (shooter), Norm (shooter), Danny (shooter), Fred (shooter), OG (shooter - well at least that year) all on his team.

I don't think it's optimal to have two ball dominant guys that can't shoot 3's well on the same team. That's just my theory. Would love to be proven wrong though.

[planetmars]

Or 21% of trhe cap today can be even less when the cap rises, giving you more money to sign talent!

Yup.. can we find that guy that can also shoot and handle the ball?

[planetmars]

You know who is an under-the-radar combo guard who can replace Fred for cheap? Shake Milton.

Shake put up 21pts/5reb/6ast this year as a starter... starting 9 games at PG when some or all of Harden, Embiid & Maxey were injured. Some of those starting lineups were absolute trash, but Milton helped the Sixers go 4-4 during a stretch of games where they should have been anilhilated.

He also won the other game he started, so he's 5-4 as a starter. Much better record than Fred. Also shooting 39.4% from 3 this year.

He's a UFA this off-season.

I'm game. We need more than 1 guy but I would love to bring in Shake.

[planetmars]

And to say Gary doesn’t have upside is premature. He’s closing in on being a 20ppg player, actually is over 20 per36 and has improved his points per36 pretty much every season. He’s scoring at a better rate this season than any of Fred’s career.

Outside of shooting what else is he improving on? The other stuff is important too.

[Bonus Jonas]

So Scottie has the ball and he's going to pass it to Pascal so he can ISO at the top of the key? What's the strategy? Or we're just taking long 2's all day?

Look at real contenders. They have 3pt shooters to surround guys that can't shoot themselves. Like with Milwaukee and how they're doing it. Lebron just had a load of shooters back in Cleveland.

Pascal's teams during our chip run (and the year after) were super awesome.. but he also had Kyle (shooter), Mark (shooter), Kawhi (shooter), Serge (shooter), Norm (shooter), Danny (shooter), Fred (shooter), OG (shooter - well at least that year) all on his team.

I don't think it's optimal to have two ball dominant guys that can't shoot 3's well on the same team. That's just my theory. Would love to be proven wrong though.

No in all honesty I hate this iso matchup searching offence we’ve been using. But I think it’s more out of necessity right now.

Ideally you have Pascal and Scottie running constant PnR’s through the middle of the floor (both can handle or roll) with shooters in the corners and either another shooter on the elbow or a big in the dunker spot. Also allows for a ton of Spain pnr’s if it’s a big.

You’d have two guys who are good with the ball and probably our two best passers in the middle of the floor with options around them.

[Primer]

I will be very curious as to what his market is if he tests FA. Last time there was no real interest and he signed with Toronto straightaway. I'm not sure what has changed? Guess we will find out.

Orlando wants him really bad and has the cap space to pay him what he wants. That's what changed.

[Bonus Jonas]

Outside of shooting what else is he improving on? The other stuff is important too.

Best finishing at the rim of his entire career this year (significantly too, went from high 50’s and 60’s to 73% this year while increasing the volume), he’s getting to the free throw line at a higher volume than he ever has.

[golden]

I'm game. We need more than 1 guy but I would love to bring in Shake.

I'd estimate Shake's market in the $10-13M/yr range, so we'd be replacing what you were saying you want Fred to do, for almost 1/3rd of the price.

These are the type of shrewd cap moves we need to be making. Not artificially pumping up an undersized combo guard's numbers to make him believe he's Raptors' Kobe and needs to be paid as such, and control the offense to justify the overpay.

[Bonus Jonas]

Fred’s never even shot 65% at the rim

[LJ2]

22-25M? lol. Fred wouldn't even sign the 28.5M contract extension. He publicly said that he outplayed that contract.

I thought he said he outplayed his current contract, not the extension?