Everything VanVleet

[A.I]

No. I'm convinced some of the issues come from the 3 officials where you get refs looking outside their zones and crews stepping on one another. The last thing the NBA needs is more whistles.

It'll be a bigger mess when one official calls something ridiculous and you'll have 3 officials now instead of 2 looking around wondering what happened.

[A.I]

They all need to shut up. Starting with, and especially, Nurse who sets the tone and is the biggest whiner on the court every night. I've been ranting about his nonsense backfiring for years but have been told it's actually a great benefit to the team or something. Looks to have worked wonders, doesn't it?

You know basically every team does it right? If you want to believe Nurse complains more than most, sure, but there are other players/teams that get T'd up more than the Raptors.

The officiating is a league-wide issue, just not the Raptors.

[slaw]

You know basically every team does it right? If you want to believe Nurse complains more than most, sure, but there are other players/teams that get T'd up more than the Raptors.

The officiating is a league-wide issue, just not the Raptors.

There's a time and place for working the refs and it's an emotional game, so there are going to be complaints, etc. It happens. And, yes, every coach and team complains to one extent or another but this stuff with Nurse is incessant. He's worse than Lowry and Derozan were. Point is that it's clearly not helping them with the officials and calls, so regardless of what others are doing perhaps a new approach is in order?

[Kagemusha]

Was it not just a couple of days ago right after Scottie Barnes got ejected, the overreaction of this board is for him to stop the bitching and just play….

then Jesus moaned and the same people who overreacted were nowhere to be found

Perhaps it's bcoz we are afraid of the potential repercussions on Scottie,
and care not about Fred?

Imo, Scottie is still very young to be doing this stuff.
We don't see 2nd yr players whine and complain this much.

[A.I]

There's a time and place for working the refs and it's an emotional game, so there are going to be complaints, etc. It happens. And, yes, every coach and team complains to one extent or another but this stuff with Nurse is incessant. He's worse than Lowry and Derozan were. Point is that it's clearly not helping them with the officials and calls, so regardless of what others are doing perhaps a new approach is in order?

As in not complaining at all? As you said, its part of the game, its going to happen in the heat of the moment.

Remember Casey? He complained a lot as well from what I remember.

In your mind, Nick is over the top with his complaints, in mine, he is just like every other coach/player, same with Casey.

[golden]

As in not complaining at all? As you said, its part of the game, its going to happen in the heat of the moment.

Remember Casey? He complained a lot as well from what I remember.

In your mind, Nick is over the top with his complaints, in mine, he is just like every other coach/player, same with Casey.

Casey (Sam Mitchell and Jay Triano before him) rarely complained and Raptors got screwed even worse than they are now. It’s not necessarily about gaining anything here by complaining, it’s about not getting pushed around. Overall, I think the Raps get a fair whistle because of Nurse and his whining. With Casey, it felt like the refs had no fear whatsoever.

Remember the Sacramento screw job, Atlanta timekeeper, etc…. That stuff used to happen consistently to us.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Well..we all know referes are tight nit.
I can understand the frustration, he went off, sure..I get it, there are some bad calls, but now u open a can worms, if u think it was bad before, u better b ready, u ain't getting any calls now, u are in for a awaking, all the refs are gonna make sure u get s&$% on, just being straight with u all. These guys they don't forget, they protect each other.
Also the 30000 fine, wtf is that, damn..that's nothing, he should of got suspended for game and 6 figure fine..yooo FV went hard on these refs and the NBA ignored it, Could be troubling when playoffs starts, this is bad for the league, basically its open season, u gotta protect your refs.
I agree, the Refs have become bunch of divas and egos size of my nuts, but u can't just let something like this slide, it devalues the importance of referee and credibility.

[MixxAOR]

Raptors get away with a lot of stuff as well. the way they let OG be physical sometimes is crazy. But i'm not gonna complain.

[A.I]

Casey (Sam Mitchell and Jay Triano before him) rarely complained and Raptors got screwed even worse than they are now. It’s not necessarily about gaining anything here by complaining, it’s about not getting pushed around. Overall, I think the Raps get a fair whistle because of Nurse and his whining. With Casey, it felt like the refs had no fear whatsoever.

Remember the Sacramento screw job, Atlanta timekeeper, etc…. That stuff used to happen consistently to us.

Maybe I just remember the Casey moments that stood out where he did complain, like the Kings game, I remember the OKC game where Derozan, Ibaka and Casey all get ejected at the same time. Either way, it happens to every coach whether its Casey, Nick or even Pop.

It really doesn't bother me anyway if coaches complain. It can be annoying if a player is complaining and not getting back into the play, running back in transition, etc.

[slaw]

Casey (Sam Mitchell and Jay Triano before him) rarely complained and Raptors got screwed even worse than they are now. It’s not necessarily about gaining anything here by complaining, it’s about not getting pushed around. Overall, I think the Raps get a fair whistle because of Nurse and his whining. With Casey, it felt like the refs had no fear whatsoever.

Remember the Sacramento screw job, Atlanta timekeeper, etc…. That stuff used to happen consistently to us.

What? The refs aren't out to "push the Raptors around" or screw them. That's insane. For the sake of argument, even if that was true, Scott Foster obviously didn't get the memo he was supposed to be afraid Nick Nurse or whatever.

And to say Dwane Casey never complained to the refs is rewriting history. Casey/Lowry/Demar were always bitching. It's been a part of Raptors for years but but, in my view, Nurse has turned it up to a degree where it's now counterproductive.

[golden]

What? The refs aren't out to "push the Raptors around" or screw them. That's insane. For the sake of argument, even if that was true, Scott Foster obviously didn't get the memo he was supposed to be afraid Nick Nurse or whatever.

And to say Dwane Casey never complained to the refs is rewriting history. Casey/Lowry/Demar were always bitching. It's been a part of Raptors for years but but, in my view, Nurse has turned it up to a degree where it's now counterproductive.

I didn’t say the refs job is/was to push the Raptors around. That was just the too-often result of bad calls and Raps being less feared than other franchises for so long.

Lowry helped to turn that respect level around… but he had to fight the refs and risk techs because Casey “loved his money”. How could you forget that classic Casey line whenever he got grilled about why he didn’t stick up for his guys?

Nurse has turned it up a few notches, fully agree, but not to the point where the calls are un-balanced over an 82-game season, IMO. And that’s where we’re probably gonna disagree without any resolution.

[Maury]

What? The refs aren't out to "push the Raptors around" or screw them. That's insane. For the sake of argument, even if that was true, Scott Foster obviously didn't get the memo he was supposed to be afraid Nick Nurse or whatever.

And to say Dwane Casey never complained to the refs is rewriting history. Casey/Lowry/Demar were always bitching. It's been a part of Raptors for years but but, in my view, Nurse has turned it up to a degree where it's now counterproductive.

Ever since he went viral for making that stupid face after a bad call, he's been emboldened. He also carries himself like a champion and a legend, which just isn't the case yet.

[Kagemusha]

All these talk about payback from the refs just proves Scottie's and Fred's points.
Some NBA refs are dirty and Silver needs to fix this.
Why is that not the priority?
This has to change and if I am the Raptors, I would stand behind Fred on this one.

[JawsGT]

Has the highest EPM on the team, 92nd percentile in the league and 80th percentile or better on both ends. He's had a rough shooting year and his POA defence has taken a step back but trash is a rather strong word considering how impactful he has been overall.

I'm not buying it Dan. I am totally aware he does alot of different things for the team, similar to lowry. But you and others also posted stats in another thread showing his terrible efficiency. He has to be better, and he has played much better in the past. He has that star role on this team, and he wants it. And if he is going to fill the star role then he has to shoot better and be a better defender. He's not the only one guilty, I know, but those guys are below him in the pecking order, and his shooting and defending are key to the success of this team. He's not playing anywhere near all star level imo. And given expectations, maybe even Fred's own, I'm fine calling his overall play this season trash.

Move him off ball, and more on ball scottie. I'd rather take the lumps with scottie then watch Fred throwing bricks and overdribbling.

[The Claw Reborn]

I'm not buying it Dan. I am totally aware he does alot of different things for the team, similar to lowry. But you and others also posted stats in another thread showing his terrible efficiency. He has to be better, and he has played much better in the past. He has that star role on this team, and he wants it. And if he is going to fill the star role then he has to shoot better and be a better defender. He's not the only one guilty, I know, but those guys are below him in the pecking order, and his shooting and defending are key to the success of this team. He's not playing anywhere near all star level imo. And given expectations, maybe even Fred's own, I'm fine calling his overall play this season trash.

Move him off ball, and more on ball scottie. I'd rather take the lumps with scottie then watch Fred throwing bricks and overdribbling.

well said.

we have been talking about this and it ain’t happening.

A Malcom Brogdon/ Marcus Smart combo type would be a nice pairing to Scottie.

Unless they acquire a super talented with potential to be a superstar like SGA

Paying a 29 year old VanVleet with declining numbers and most especially his defensive ability is just a very bad decision.

Scottie will be the collateral damage