Who is the Most Overrated Team in the East ..aka.. Why Boston Sux.

[tDotted]

No it's the "Tank" or "Go all out for the win" vs. "play the middle ground argument".

We are effectively a treadmill team. It only doesn't look that way because we're in the east. If we were in the West we'd be fighting for a 6-8 seed. Remember those dreaded 7-11 spots Leiweke talked about? Yeah.

So..... Robert Covington pushes the team to contender status?

[KeonClark]

Not re-signing them and trading DeMar gets you a really high draft pick to actually add an ELITE young talent to this young core of mostly middling talents.

Re-signing them and not making any tangible improvements elsewhere (other than changing the style of play to one that doesn't match our personnel, even though I DO prefer this style) gets us 45-50 wins like usual, a struggle to beat lower seeds in the playoffs and no chance in hell of beating Cleveland.

You talk like you just don't resign them and then voila the next year you add this elite young talent.

Really? Philly was historically horrible for years and now have like 1.5 future all stars to show for it. Minnesota DID add studs, both draft and free agency, and they're still with us in the 2nd tier. Look at Sacramento. New Orleans. Los Angeles. New York. Year after year, pick after pick, still suck. Those Brooklyn picks? Boston threw the last one at Cleveland for a shot at a top 30 player in the league now, which we already have 2 of.

I'll say it for the umpteenth time because I like mixxaor am sick of it. There is no proven method to a title, and no proof tanking is a better method than the one we're taking. I respect the hell out of what the raps have built, they've been in the conversation for years, and a lot of respected teams like the spurs and rockets despise tanking and for good reason.

It's easy to sit on a message board and treat it like a game of nba 2k..Sim a few seasons, draft the top guys, watch their overall rating shoot up each offseason. If only.

But resigning lowry does not doom us to mediocrity. It keeps us 2 floors below the penthouse, trying to find the key to the stairwell, rather than going back to the parkade level and hoping we find an elevator that may or may not work

[JamesNaismith]

All the said is why I term it a "developmental" year. I have no illusions of getting past Cleveland and I have no illusions that there was an offseason path of doing so either. I do understand bring the guys back, for continuation, for hoping for a bit of luck, for trading them for younger assets if and when the need arises. But to me the biggest and most important thing this year is to see great development out of Powell, OG and Poeltl. I think they could all be potentially needle movers in the future, Demar is young enough to join the bridged core, as well as JV or assets for JV and future picks. Might as well see what Masai has up his sleeve. In the meantime, if the young guys keep pushing the old guys, there could be a changing of the guard sooner than expected, without ever missing the playoffs or taking a huge step back. That to me is enticing.

See to me, that's not at all.

Because we're already then for the most part looking at the "core" we'd building around and again none of these young guys with the possible exception of OG (who needs some major things to go in his favor 1) full recovery 2) uncommon developmental curve a la Kawhi/Giannis) has all-star potential nevermind superstar.

"Bridging the gap" to the next core imo is one of the worst ideas possible because we just set ourselves up for more of the same thing. Does anyone thing an old DeMar and these guys at their supposed primes are suddenly any more a championship core than our existing core???

I don't, so we're basically treading water or the treadmill as they say. About the only player that MIGHT net us some good 1st rd draft picks is DeMar although as we all know the game is moving away, if not gone away, from the mid-range and the time to have done it would have been NOW. Not to mention all our other guys will not net a lottery pick by end of this year you can count on that.

While some say we wouldn't have gotten a good draft pick, I say look at us now. We have Kyle, DeMar, Serge, CJ and JV and we're really not that much better than the worst in the league. If none of those guys were here, as much as a lot our fanbase has their homer glasses on, this team really wouldn't have been very good at all and think we would have had a great chance at a top 5-7 pick. I'd much rather us had a chance to bring in one of Porter Jr, Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, Knox, Preston (and if Kostas Antentokounmpo is in fact eligible he is a HUGE miss) to have built the future on, then trotting out this useless core that will be bounced out the second they face CLE and possibly even BOS for truly "just the sake of" because that's all it is.

If the idea is to rebuild in 2 years as DanH is saying, then even worse because by then majority of these "young players" will now suddenly be in their or nearing their primes and just completely killed the chances of a good pick which would be such a "Raptor" like thing for us to do.

[KeonClark]

See to me, that's not at all.

Because we're already then for the most part looking at the "core" we'd building around and again none of these young guys with the possible exception of OG (who needs some major things to go in his favor 1) full recovery 2) uncommon developmental curve a la Kawhi/Giannis) has all-star potential nevermind superstar.

"Bridging the gap" to the next core imo is one of the worst ideas possible because we just set ourselves up for more of the same thing. Does anyone thing an old DeMar and these guys at their supposed primes are suddenly any more a championship core than our existing core???

I don't, so we're basically treading water or the treadmill as they say. About the only player that MIGHT net us some good 1st rd draft picks is DeMar although as we all know the game is moving away, if not gone away, from the mid-range and the time to have done it would have been NOW. Not to mention all our other guys will not net a lottery pick by end of this year you can count on that.

While some say we wouldn't have gotten a good draft pick, I say look at us now. We have Kyle, DeMar, Serge, CJ and JV and we're really not that much better than the worst in the league. If none of those guys were here, as much as a lot our fanbase has their homer glasses on, this team really wouldn't have been very good at all and think we would have had a great chance at a top 5-7 pick. I'd much rather us had a chance to bring in one of Porter Jr, Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, Knox, Preston (and if Kostas Antentokounmpo is in fact eligible he is a HUGE miss) to have built the future on, then trotting out this useless core that will be bounced out the second they face CLE and possibly even BOS for truly "just the sake of" because that's all it is.

If the idea is to rebuild in 2 years as DanH is saying, then even worse because by then majority of these "young players" will now suddenly be in their or nearing their primes and just completely killed the chances of a good pick which would be such a "Raptor" like thing for us to do.

You and Shaolin both seem interested in firing up a good early August conversation here in November. Tanking talk on the afternoon of game 8 of an exciting regular season where we DO have a punchers chance at an NBA finals. It's ridiculous.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Like it's pretty damn obvious we picked the safe, financially prudent option. Spent enough on the big guns to still be a top 4-5 team in the east, and cut costs on the bench to remain below the luxury tax. Team doesn't get any better, arguably is worse than what we had at the end of last year and MLSE is happy because they probably get 2-3 rounds of playoff revenue out of it and don't have to pay luxury tax charges.

Some people are ok with that. I get it, Raptors have been terrible basically forever, and it's nice to have a few years in a row where we're one of the good teams. But that's not how you actually change the image of a franchise unfortunately. Atlanta had several years in a row of success in the regular season and where did it get them? You have to be a legitimate title contender to actually build up cache in this league and become a hotspot. We still have no shot at any marquee FAs, we're still a joke to US media (and if you think that doesn't matter, think again). I'm not ok with it, I think we either needed to bottom out and try to get real superstars in the draft to become a top team or make a swing for the fences to load up this team 2004 Pistons style luxury tax be damned and try to beat Cleveland and at least get a finals trip in before this window closes.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

You and Shaolin both seem interested in firing up a good early August conversation here in November. Tanking talk on the afternoon of game 8 of an exciting regular season where we DO have a punchers chance at an NBA finals. It's ridiculous.

We have NO chance at the NBA finals as currently constructed.

[JimiCliff]

No it's the "Tank" or "Go all out for the win" vs. "play the middle ground argument".

We are effectively a treadmill team. It only doesn't look that way because we're in the east. If we were in the West we'd be fighting for a 6-8 seed. Remember those dreaded 7-11 spots Leiweke talked about? Yeah.

But, we're accruing assets. For eg, travel with this roster back in time, and an offer of CJ Miles, Powell, OG, Poeltl, and picks beats Houston's offer for Harden.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

So..... Robert Covington pushes the team to contender status?

Again you're not listening.

I have already accepted that the team is not going in EITHER direction. We are not tanking, we will not be making moves to pay tax through the nose to try and load up.

So within the constraints that MLSE has opposed (be good but not great, tax avoidance, etc) I look for moves we can make to get better. It's not that hard to understand mate.

[JamesNaismith]

You talk like you just don't resign them and then voila the next year you add this elite young talent.

Really? Philly was historically horrible for years and now have like 1.5 future all stars to show for it. Minnesota DID add studs, both draft and free agency, and they're still with us in the 2nd tier. Look at Sacramento. New Orleans. Los Angeles. New York. Year after year, pick after pick, still suck. Those Brooklyn picks? Boston threw the last one at Cleveland for a shot at a top 30 player in the league now, which we already have 2 of.

I'll say it for the umpteenth time because I like mixxaor am sick of it. There is no proven method to a title, and no proof tanking is a better method than the one we're taking. I respect the hell out of what the raps have built, they've been in the conversation for years, and a lot of respected teams like the spurs and rockets despise tanking and for good reason.

It's easy to sit on a message board and treat it like a game of nba 2k..Sim a few seasons, draft the top guys, watch their overall rating shoot up each offseason. If only.

But resigning lowry does not doom us to mediocrity. It keeps us 2 floors below the penthouse, trying to find the key to the stairwell, rather than going back to the parkade level and hoping we find an elevator that may or may not work

While I agree with you can't just assume that you automatically add an elite talent, it would be nice if for once we actually committed to trying to do so. Bosh was not intentional (we had VC), DeMar wasn't (we had Bosh) and hopefully OG will be to DeMar as the aforementioned were to the existing all-star at the time.

I know there aren't guarantees but it would be nice at least try to find another elite talent. For all the accomplishments Lowry and DeRozan have accomplished for this franchise (and all props to them), not once did I have the same level of excitement as I did when we had VC and TMac and why?! Because we all know in our heart of hearts, a team led by all-star level talents like Lowry and DeRozan can only go but so far....where as with VC/TMac the sky was the limit (unfortunately Tracey had other plans and we didn't know how to properly build around Vince). But nonetheless, we've done 2 straight rounds of this where we tried with all-star level talents to see how far we can go...Bosh then DD/Lowry and it was great fun in it's own way but I want to take another shot at something great.

Yes, yes there are no guarantees but common sense/FACTS are the ODDS are greatly increased of finding an elite young talent when you actually have the OPPORTUNITY to draft one of them. As aside SAS was a bad example, considering Tim Duncan was #1 pick as was David Robinson, if they didn't have either of those guys no one cares about the Spurs right now, they would have been seen as nothing more than a treadmill team. Let's also please not act like anyone knew Harden was that good (who was also a top 3 pick fyi).

[JamesNaismith]

But, we're accruing assets. For eg, travel with this roster back in time, and an offer of CJ Miles, Powell, OG, Poeltl, and picks beats Houston's offer for Harden.

You say that is if anyone knew how good Harden was lol and such were able to acquire a MVP caliber player with those level of pieces. At the time Harden was being used as a 6th man with the hopes of being another Ginobilli.

If those names can grab us a MVP candidate I'm all aboard your train of thought but citing what was for the most part pure luck on HOU's behalf isn't exactly a fair way of analyzing the value of our assets.

[MixxAOR]

Omg like literally the same examples. This takes me back to 2012-13

[KeonClark]

We have NO chance at the NBA finals as currently constructed.

Agree to disagree. There have been far bigger upsets in NBA history than Toronto over this 2018 Cleveland squad. But hey pessimism is fun too I guess

[JimiCliff]

You say that is if anyone knew how good Harden was lol

It's a gamble, that needed luck. Just like throwing away seasons for draft picks who may or may not turn out to be franchise saviours is a gamble, that needs luck.

[KeonClark]

It's a gamble, that needed luck. Just like throwing away seasons for draft picks who may or may not turn out to be franchise saviours is a gamble, that needs luck.

Or the fact the greatest team in the league and possibly in history is the luckiest one of them all. Curry went 7th behind Johnny Flynn, Thompson 15, Green 30. I'm sure they envisioned all of this back in 2012 #pinkfont

[JamesNaismith]

It's a gamble, that needed luck. Just like throwing away seasons for draft picks who may or may not turn out to be franchise saviours is a gamble, that needs luck.

Well I just like the odds more of finding a franchise level talent in the top end of the draft versus finding a MVP caliber player in his 3rd year coming off the bench in a trade is all.