bargnani is by no means a prototypical center and couldnt rebound a beachball so i think he is
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Macc wrote: View PostNot true to an extent. People are going to see it as a team stat and will still pin things on is below average rebounding numbers when things go wrong. Sure it may go: when Bargnani is on the floor there are less second chance points. But when the Raptors are ranked 28th or so in the league in rebounding it will go: Bargnani should be averaging way more rebounds for a 7'. Which stat do you think people are more likely to realize?
People understand scoring. Understanding advanced basketball metrics is another story altogether. When it comes to numbers what people don't understand in sports they often poo poo as meaningless primarily because they don't understand it.
They understand that big men should rebound and guards should get assists but again those are simple box score stats.
I would love to see the NBA start to include "second chance points" in their team stats including the net differential. They always talk about this during games.
I have never done a study but I bet that there is a strong correlation between team differential on "second chance points" over a season and its team winning percentage.
In the end rebounding numbers aren't as telling because even if the other team gets a lot of offensive rebounds unless they convert them into second chance points it doesn't mean very much. Of course the more second chance opportunities that you have the greater the chance of getting more second chance points, but in the end it seems to me that it is the differential in second chance points between teams that is more important than just wining the rebounding count.
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nubreed000: Thanks for pointing out the obvious and not getting sarcasm...Considering he wasn't the number one option or maybe even number two with Hedouche around, last season he still managed almost 18 points per...Does that make it even more obvious to you?
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RaptorRoo wrote: View Postnubreed000: Thanks for pointing out the obvious and not getting sarcasm...Considering he wasn't the number one option or maybe even number two with Hedouche around, last season he still managed almost 18 points per...Does that make it even more obvious to you?
Barbosa and Kleiza are far superior scorers to Wright and Turk. Davis will be a far superior scorer to Reggie/Rasho
DeRozan and Weems offense will both be significantly improved in 10-11.
Calderon if still around and Jack will take more shots with Bosh gone.
Even the "Garbage Man" will get a lot more touches take a lot more shots per game in 10-11 then he took last year. They will even start running plays for him in 10-11. You can put that one in the bank 4sure.
People who think that the Raptors game plan on offense is to replace Bosh with Bargnani are in my opinion only kidding themselves and you don't need statistics to come to that conclusion.
Of course the proof will be in the pudding as they sayLast edited by Buddahfan; Sun Aug 15, 2010, 06:56 PM.Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s
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Good point Frankthetank, if you check the history of big men most didn't become great scorers or rebounders until after 5 years in the league which would put them in their late twenty's...Bargnani is still developing his body and skill set and this past summer playing with the Italian nationals will definitely help that progression...
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Buddahfan: I think it's safe to say that anyone with half a brain doesn't expect Bargnani to do Bosh numbers this season, but this season won't hinge on one player...This is a new era for the Raps with a new system and philosophy...It's also safe to say that regardless of your abbreviated point of measure Bargs will not go down as the worst rebounding 7 footer. In fact, He will finish his career at a very respectable level...
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RaptorRoo wrote: View PostBuddahfan: I think it's safe to say that anyone with half a brain doesn't expect Bargnani to do Bosh numbers this season, but this season won't hinge on one player...This is a new era for the Raps with a new system and philosophy...It's also safe to say that regardless of your abbreviated point of measure Bargs will not go down as the worst rebounding 7 footer. In fact, He will finish his career at a very respectable level...
We disagree on Bargnani's potential as a good rebounder. While he eventually will probably not be the worst 7' rebounder in NBA history for players that play over 10,000 career minutes I don't think that over the next 15 years we will see many worse then him at the 7' level. Just my opinion.Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s
Memories some so sweet, indeed
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“As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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Okay, it's been a while since I've had the time to post here, but this subject is one that will bring me back for a moment.
Okay, Bargnani is a very bad rebounder. No one can realistically argue against that. And after 4 years in the league, it's pretty evident that he is what he is. Players who have played the number of minutes Bargnani has in the four years he's played, and hasn't had any setbacks such as injury, don't make much of an improvement. All these excuses about him only being 24 or that big men develop late, or that someone like Andrew Bogut made a big jump after four years don't make any sense when you look at the fact that any player who has played significant minutes over his first four years and has not missed significant time to injury, don't generally make big improvements.
In four years, Bargnani's rebounds per 36 minutes have gone from 5.6 rpg to 6.3 rpg. At that rate, he might hit double digits when he's 40.
And those who believe that his offense makes up for his weak rebounding need to learn a lot more about the game of basketball, quite frankly. First of all, his offense is simply not that good. He's a good scorer, but he's not a great scorer and probably never will be. And unless Bargnani is scoring 30 ppg, and in an efficient manner, his lack of rebounding is unforgivable. I've made this argument ad nauseum, and no where better than here...
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Tim W all you need to do is go look at Shaq, garnett, J. oneal, gasol, all they're stats peak from 25-29. Its very simple go look at their stats. Why argue when you can just look it up. No one is mixing andrea for moses malone but Andrea will average 10 rebounds per 36 minutes at least ones in his career. If he does I hope that tim and buddahmolester will apologize to Andrea for judging him before he's turned 25. Maybe we should judge tim and buddah's life by how successful they were as teenagers. Oh they're teenagers
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Frankthetank wrote: View PostTim W all you need to do is go look at Shaq, garnett, J. oneal, gasol, all they're stats peak from 25-29. Its very simple go look at their stats. Why argue when you can just look it up. No one is mixing andrea for moses malone but Andrea will average 10 rebounds per 36 minutes at least ones in his career. If he does I hope that tim and buddahmolester will apologize to Andrea for judging him before he's turned 25. Maybe we should judge tim and buddah's life by how successful they were as teenagers. Oh they're teenagersTRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.
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Frankthetank wrote: View PostTim W all you need to do is go look at Shaq, garnett, J. oneal, gasol, all they're stats peak from 25-29. Its very simple go look at their stats. Why argue when you can just look it up. No one is mixing andrea for moses malone but Andrea will average 10 rebounds per 36 minutes at least ones in his career. If he does I hope that tim and buddahmolester will apologize to Andrea for judging him before he's turned 25. Maybe we should judge tim and buddah's life by how successful they were as teenagers. Oh they're teenagers
I am not a NBA basketball playerAvatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s
Memories some so sweet, indeed
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“As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
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