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Everything Bargnani
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Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.
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Chisholm via TSN:
@PHDMAC
Here's a thought..not one I'm certain about yet. Bargnani for Stoudemire
I've gotten flooded with trade scenarios for Andrea Bargnani since he's started the season so slowly, so really I'm using this question as a template to answer a lot of others.
First, the Raptors are not going to assume much risk in a return for Bargnani. After this season, Bargnani has only two seasons left on his deal, with the last being at Bargnani's discretion as he has the right to terminate the final year of his contract. As a result, the Raptors don't feel overburdened by having him around. They aren't desperate to get rid of him, and so a team is not going to be able to dump their trash on Toronto thinking that they club is eager to part with Bargnani.
Second, anyone they got to replace Bargnani at power forward has to, first and foremost, make sense alongside Valanciunas and DeRozan. That means that they have to land someone who can space the floor with his jump shot, opening up the paint for post-ups and drives. They need a guy who fits the personality that the team is trying to establish, which means effort and hustle are prerequisites. Also, if possible, they should see if they can land a solid passer at the position, too, as the club lacks facilitators and it has shown in the club's difficulties at the offensive end.
Lastly and most importantly, though, is that the club would need to be taking a step forward with any trade involving Bargnani. While fans can possess the snide attitude that any trade would be better than keeping Bargnani around, that isn't true. He isn't playing well right now, but he isn't dead weight, either. Bargnani still has supporters in the organization even if he isn't a great fit with the direction of the team. They aren't simply going to cut-and-run with him. They don't need a better player in return for Bargnani, just a better fit. They won't get Paul Millsap, but he's a perfect example of what the team needs: hard work, floor spacing and strong defensive fundamentals.
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/tim_chisholm/?id=409782
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I still like Bargnani.... yeesh... he's had a slow start this year but I love how people act like we should just "drop" a 19 ppg guy and expect no detriment to this team. We can barely score as it is, let's get rid of our most naturally talented scorer great.9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum
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KeonClark wrote: View PostI still like Bargnani.... yeesh... he's had a slow start this year but I love how people act like we should just "drop" a 19 ppg guy and expect no detriment to this team. We can barely score as it is, let's get rid of our most naturally talented scorer great.
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KeonClark wrote: View PostI still like Bargnani.... yeesh... he's had a slow start this year but I love how people act like we should just "drop" a 19 ppg guy and expect no detriment to this team. We can barely score as it is, let's get rid of our most naturally talented scorer great.
He is a cancer on the court. Poor offensive decisions. Poor defensive rotations. He is taking inefficiency to a whole new low.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostHave you watched the games? *honest question*
He is a cancer on the court. Poor offensive decisions. Poor defensive rotations. He is taking inefficiency to a whole new low.9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum
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KeonClark wrote: View PostI have watched every game. Start to finish. He has played terribly off the ball, but he has always played terribly off the ball. The only thing different now is his FG%. It's been bad since pre season, but luckily, FG% is a part of the game that has a way of evening itself out. If he's still shooting 35% at the end of the year (he won't be), then I will agree with you. Until that day, Ill tell you Ed Davis has zero offensive instincts at all and he's not an option. Other than Bargnani, only DeRozan, Lowry and Calderon can score a basket on their own (Kleiza sometimes, Ross not consistently there yet). Calderon would rather pass, everytime, Lowry is injury prone and DeRozan is a second option at best. So, as frusturated as you are with Bargnani, give it time, because we need his skill set.
Putting up points is a great thing but just about anyone in the NBA can be an inefficient scorer with 15-20 shots per night.
For all Ed's offensive deficiencies, he has a greater impact on the game than Bargnani with all his offensive 'prowess'.
There are 2 ways to win: put up more points than the opponent or allow less points than the opponent. Bargnani does not help in the quest for either. What is worse, he doesn't even seem to care. He showed what he is capable of last season for about 16/17 games. The fact he has come nowhere near this, not in terms of his production, but in terms of his obvious effort and passion is beyond discouraging.
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It would be nice if Bargs could string a few competent games together so that opposing GM's don't start chuckling when they see Colangelo on caller ID, and answer the phone with "Bryan, Eric and Aaron Williams is as high as I'll go."
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Matt52 wrote: View PostI think we will have to agree to disagree on Bargnani's value.
Putting up points is a great thing but just about anyone in the NBA can be an inefficient scorer with 15-20 shots per night.
For all Ed's offensive deficiencies, he has a greater impact on the game than Bargnani with all his offensive 'prowess'.
There are 2 ways to win: put up more points than the opponent or allow less points than the opponent. Bargnani does not help in the quest for either. What is worse, he doesn't even seem to care. He showed what he is capable of last season for about 16/17 games. The fact he has come nowhere near this, not in terms of his production, but in terms of his obvious effort and passion is beyond discouraging.
And if you are really believing Ed Davis gives us a better chance to win than Bargnani, well, we better sit you down Dwayne Casey because you know more about basketball then he does.9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum
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KeonClark wrote: View PostI think this whole myth of Bargnani caring for 16-17 games then not caring again has gotten out of hand. While his effort has always left something to be desired, I don't think he had a 3 week epiphany last year, he was just playing well. People see him walking around with his blank stare and mouth agape and make this obvious connection.
And if you are really believing Ed Davis gives us a better chance to win than Bargnani, well, we better sit you down Dwayne Casey because you know more about basketball then he does.
With that said, you were the one who brought up Ed Davis as a starter. My memory and recollection went back to a few games where ED was a part of the unit bringing the Raptors back in to games only to see it vanish when Bargnani returned to the floor.
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After this season, Bargnani has only two seasons left on his deal, with the last being at Bargnani's discretion as he has the right to terminate the final year of his contract
They aren't desperate to get rid of him
anyone they got to replace Bargnani at power forward has to, first and foremost, make sense alongside Valanciunas and DeRozan. That means that they have to land someone who can space the floor with his jump shot, opening up the paint for post-ups and drives. They need a guy who fits the personality that the team is trying to establish, which means effort and hustle are prerequisites. Also, if possible, they should see if they can land a solid passer at the position, too, as the club lacks facilitators and it has shown in the club's difficulties at the offensive end.is that the club would need to be taking a step forward with any trade involving BargnaniThey won't get Paul Millsap, but he's a perfect example of what the team needs: hard work, floor spacing and strong defensive fundamentals.
They don't need a better player in return for Bargnani, just a better fit.
Bargnani still has supporters in the organization even if he isn't a great fit with the direction of the team.
If what Chisolm says is true... we can forget about a trade. They might as well ask for the moon if they are hoping to upgrade Bargnani's position by moving Bargnani. (Not much cap space or first round picks to sweeten the deal)
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