Can't see the Bucks doing this trade. In the middle of a playoff race, they would not trade a player that a GM from a team trying to catch them in the standings.
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10 000 Hours wrote: View PostCan't see the Bucks doing this trade. In the middle of a playoff race, they would not trade a player that a GM from a team trying to catch them in the standings.
if you realize that your team is going to permanently stuck in the mushy middle, you blow it up sooner rather than laterFor still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar
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Nilanka wrote: View PostIn the eyes of some, Bargnani has more lives than a cat. Why should we give Bargnani any more time in order to reassess him? We know EXACTLY what he is and isn't. If the right deal comes along in the next 9 days, Colangelo has to pull the trigger.
- Franchise player
- No. 1 option
- #1 overall draft pick (and fans need to let that go)
What he is:
- Difficult to defend
- Scoring option from anywhere on the Court
- A floor spreader who can score in the paint (unlike Ilyasova)
- Someone who wants to play in Canada
- Good post defender
- Ideal off the Bench, with potential to rank amongst top 6th man types
Why reassess him?
- The Rudy Gay factor is changing the dynamics of this team
- Opponent focus & Double coverage will be less
- Could make the Secondary a potent Bench
.
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RapthoseLeafs wrote: View PostWhat he isn't:
- Franchise player
- No. 1 option
- #1 overall draft pick (and fans need to let that go)
What he is:
- Difficult to defend
- Scoring option from anywhere on the Court
- A floor spreader who can score in the paint (unlike Ilyasova)
- Someone who wants to play in Canada
- Good post defender
- Ideal off the Bench, with potential to rank amongst top 6th man types
Why reassess him?
- The Rudy Gay factor is changing the dynamics of this team
- Opponent focus & Double coverage will be less
- Could make the Secondary a potent Bench
.
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thead wrote: View Postif you realize that your team is going to permanently stuck in the mushy middle, you blow it up sooner rather than later
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RapthoseLeafs wrote: View PostWhat he isn't:
- Franchise player
- No. 1 option
- #1 overall draft pick (and fans need to let that go)
What he is:
- Difficult to defend
- Scoring option from anywhere on the Court
- A floor spreader who can score in the paint (unlike Ilyasova)
- Someone who wants to play in Canada
- Good post defender
- Ideal off the Bench, with potential to rank amongst top 6th man types
Why reassess him?
- The Rudy Gay factor is changing the dynamics of this team
- Opponent focus & Double coverage will be less
- Could make the Secondary a potent Bench
.
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Milwaukee doesn't really need to blow it up either. They have a lot of expiring contracts and so next year is a 'blow it up' year anyway. They still need to figure out what they want to do with Jennings and Ellis would be a very big asset as well.
Ilyasova is signed to a good deal and has a long term contract which is enticing for an unfriendly free agent destination. I don't see Milwaukee trading him for Bargnani either. Bryan could be jonesing for him but it will probably be a few years before he gets him.
Before yesterday I would have said no to Ilyasova but looking at his stats, I could see why he'd be a good pickup. I would still prefer Gasol over him though and that's a far likely scenario.
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Nilanka wrote: View PostAt the expense of playoff revenue? Milwaukee doesn't gain anything from blowing it up now as opposed to this summer. But they lose a lot of revenue generated by a playoff race.Attitude Is A Choice.
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thead wrote: View Postif you realize that your team is going to permanently stuck in the mushy middle, you blow it up sooner rather than later
A team like the Bucks almost only gets their top talent through the draft, and have a hard time attracting more than substandard talent....Anyway, the overwhelming sense I got is that all of their fans want a shakeup because they hate being in that middle part, and they know that other than Jennings they don't have any high level talent players. *keeping in mind they don't see Ellis as apiece of the future.
Bargnani, though I saw no mention of him, is clearly a talent upgrade...talent was never hs problem. And he would certainly be a better go-to guy up front than anyone they have, including Ilyasova, who's an efficient player, but also not capable of really reaching a higher level in terms of filling that big role of a 2nd or 3rd option. I still don't know if Milwaukee would actually want Bargs, given his contract and rebounding allergies, but in terms of what they may be looking for, he's clearly a more realistic option for them than Gasol or Cousins. I also don't see the Bucks giving up assets for a rental like Smith or Millsap, even though those 2, just like on our own forums here, are popular choices. Frankly, I don't see that they have a lot of options, so who knows, maybe htey'll fall into the Bargnani trap...Maybe if we sweeten the deal by taking back Udoh
(WHAT?! you say...You''re crazy!!...well, not really. With Ersan, JV and Amir, that's most of the minutes...keep Gray as a matchup big and Acy as a 5th big, Udoh becomes the emergency big, who you pay too much but we can just renounce his right and let him walk...it doesn't affect our flexibility since we only have our exceptions to spend, and since Ilyasova makes less, we can absorb most of his and Udoh's salaries under the amount Bargs would be owed.)
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostHe's better than him if he doesn't have to do too much with it. He's not quite as quick to the basket, and he's not big enough to play in the post as well as Bargs. They can't run plays for Ilyasova where he has the ball in his hands, and as it is now, they have that small backcourt issue. Bargs would make Ellis more expendable, and to get a scoring "downgrade" there as well more acceptable...maybe try to turn it into a 3-team deal with Indy. I don't think they really want to keep Granger. I think they could really use Ellis like a supersub, and it saves Indy a small amount of money. They can keep the lineup that's been working, and keep George at SF. This deal, for example, works....And Milwauke would have a slightly more conventional lineup, because they're clearly not going to be contenders as constructed. We could also throw in AA to the Bucks if they want extra SG insurance with Ellis gone.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bl3zt72
1. Ekpe Udoh is actually a quality big that still has huge upside. He just has not been given the opportunity with limited minutes. As a matter of fact, I would trade #7 for him straight up!
2. "and he's not big enough to play in the post as well as Bargs." since when Bargs plays in the post?? Ersan actually plays well close to the basket on both ends of the floor.
3. Hypothesis about Indy - just leave it out unless you have any legit references.
4. Booing Bargs on his first game back - if I was in the crowd, I'd boo him! Damn right I would. The amount of suffering he has caused me over the years...
Just for the record, I would not do this trade... as much as I dislike #7
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vino wrote: View PostNothing personal, but you've made few statements here that are just plain bsL.
1. Ekpe Udoh is actually a quality big that still has huge upside. He just has not been given the opportunity with limited minutes. As a matter of fact, I would trade #7 for him straight up!
2. "and he's not big enough to play in the post as well as Bargs." since when Bargs plays in the post?? Ersan actually plays well close to the basket on both ends of the floor.
3. Hypothesis about Indy - just leave it out unless you have any legit references.
4. Booing Bargs on his first game back - if I was in the crowd, I'd boo him! Damn right I would. The amount of suffering he has caused me over the years...
Just for the record, I would not do this trade... as much as I dislike #7
2. Bargs gets some touches almost every game in the post. He is big and uses his size, especially when he has a mismatch. This is something that started way back when Triano was here. Clearly you don't actually pay attention to Raps games when you watch them. Ersan does not have the size, or moves, to really finish a lot in the post...Bargs is a much better player in the paint (where he finishes at a higher %, 46% on 44 attempts to 24% on 34 attempts, according to nba.com's advanced player stats), and Ilyasova's %s and usage are focused under the basket and at the 3pt line because he's a complimentary scorer. This is because Bargs can actually create shots from different spots on teh court.
In fact, if you look at the breakdown by area on such pages, Bargs is as good or better in terms of %s from everywhere except the above the break 3, and all that with a usg % of about 25%, as compared to Ersan's 19%. Considering the Bucks want a better scorer, and especially that role of a 2nd or 3rd guy to go with Jennings, Bargs clearly has more ability to fill that role.
3. Hypothesis about Indy. It's a hypothesis, I don't need a source. Have you suggested that the Raps should try any trade? All I did was suggest that since I think it's pretty well known that Granger has been in the rumor mill since the summer, and that with Indy's lineup playing well, it's as good a time as any for them to trade him to address more important issues, like the fact that their backcourt is basically Stephenson, Hill and Augustin...Ellis would be a huge upgrade for them from that perspective. I don't see a problem with showing that such a 3team deal is at least technically possible, which is really all I was doing with the trade machine link.
4. Booing Bargs....that is classless. What would you be booing him for? YOu think that's going to help your team win? You think that's going to make him want to play better, which is good whether we keep or trade him? How has he caused you suffering? Has his inability to rebound affected your health, your virility, your friendships?
Boo Bargs if we're losing games and he's playing like crap. He came back and was actually playing well, for Bargs. That is classless, good sir, and I hope one day 20,000 people boo you just for showing up to work.
oh, some random stats from nba.com....
http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/pla...01213;season=r
http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/pla...01213;season=r
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white men can't jump wrote: View Post4. Booing Bargs....that is classless. What would you be booing him for? YOu think that's going to help your team win? You think that's going to make him want to play better, which is good whether we keep or trade him? How has he caused you suffering? Has his inability to rebound affected your health, your virility, your friendships?
Boo Bargs if we're losing games and he's playing like crap. He came back and was actually playing well, for Bargs. That is classless, good sir, and I hope one day 20,000 people boo you just for showing up to work.
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Nilanka wrote: View PostJust to play devil's advocate, why is it OK to boo a player if he's playing badly? Like you mentioned, it doesn't help the team win, and doesn't make him want to play better.
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Nilanka wrote: View PostJust to play devil's advocate, why is it OK to boo a player if he's playing badly? Like you mentioned, it doesn't help the team win, and doesn't make him want to play better.
But for Bargs, it was just angry booing before he had even done anything. Really, like I said, he got booed basically for showing up tp work...Like, would those fans rather he had stayed injured and not had a solid game for us that night?Last edited by white men can't jump; Tue Feb 12, 2013, 05:06 PM.
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tucas wrote: View PostI may have misinterpreted, but I saw it more as you should never boo a player on your own team, but if you're going to atleast have a reason to do it(ie. playing like shit)
I'm just curious as to why some people think it's justified to boo Bargnani if he lacks effort one night, but not if he lacks effort for his entire career.
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