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Everything Bargnani
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Yeah, for me Boozer is pretty-much the worst of all rumoured options. However, he's also the most realistic of all rumoured options. At a minimum, I'd want a draft pick back, and even then it would be tough to swallow.
The PG side of it makes it even more difficult to evaluate for me... Robinson is one of my least favorite players in the league. I'd be spending the rest of the season hoping that the Raptors don't offer him a new contract in the summer.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostLook back. I addressed first bold.
I've addressed the second bold as well.
Toronto needs Boozer less than it needs no-Bargnani, IMO. That's my point. We don't agree. This isn't about convincing one another that the other is correct. We have different opinions. It's OK.Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.
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jimmie wrote: View PostWell, I think Boozer (the player, v.s the dollars) is not very good, and a poor fit for this team as (it seems to be being) built.
jimmie wrote: View Post- He will take floor time away for Valanciunas. This one is an obvious drawback.
jimmie wrote: View Post- He will take floor time away from Amir. This one depends on your appraisal of Amir, but I've said before I think he's mjore than adequate as a starting 4, and a better fit for this team.
jimmie wrote: View Post- He will require (and likely desire) significant touches to be productive at the offensive end. That means effort making his need for the ball fit with Gay, Lowry, and Derozan, who are clearly seen as more long-term pieces. It would mean a shift in their current schemes to a more interior-centric offense. Not that that's a bad thing, but I think it's a bad thing when the player you're moving things around for will not be here in 3 years when the rest of them are expecting to be competing for a championship.
jimmie wrote: View Post- He is an albatross on defense. He's never been a good defender, and now he's 31, and likely to be difficult to motivate if he gets traded to Toronto.
jimmie wrote: View Post- Now for the contract. When he's in his final year, at 34 years of age, do you think he's going to be any easier to move than Bargnani? You'd basically be trading one useless, difficult-to-move contract for another. Any discussion of this trade hinges on the ability to maximize that asset. If you can't move him for something -- same as is being discussed with AB now -- and he doesn't significantly improve the team now without hamstringing it after he leaves, then that's bad asset management. And I'm very skeptical of him having any more value in 3 years than Bargs has now.
jimmie wrote: View Post- None of this is touching on possible chemistry issues. He'd be leaving, against his will, from a team with championship aspirations (once Rose returns) to go to a developing team that he knows he's a gap-filler on. He's been noted throughout his career for being kinda lazy and apathetic. He's never been a "closer" or big-game player, but he might get delusions of grandeur in Toronto. I'm not saying any of these things are guaranteed to happen, but they are a distinct possibility which, when coupled with my other concerns noted above, make me very wary.
jimmie wrote: View PostAgain, I'm evaluating this *solely* on what would be coming to Toronto, not what would be going out. I would never make a desperation deal to move a player unless his presence has a significant negative impact on the rest of the team.
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jimmie wrote: View PostI know you've addressed it. I just don't agree.
Toronto needs Boozer less than it needs no-Bargnani, IMO. That's my point. We don't agree. This isn't about convincing one another that the other is correct. We have different opinions. It's OK.
Bargnani/full MLE (4yr/$20)
vs.
Boozer/mini-MLE (3yr/$9M)
Who are the Raptors going to sign in free agency at the difference of $2M per season and one extra year that will result in a swing of 4.6WS with a slight increase per48mins in scoring (+1.3), rebounding (+8.5 = +6.0 defensive, +2.5 offensive), assists (+1.0), and TS% (+1.2) PLUS the added production of the player on the mini-MLE.
More than willing to agree to disagree especially when you've brought nothing to the discussion other than unfounded opinions of, as you admit, what might be or could happen.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostHow? Team appears to be playing slower with more ISO....
I admire your dedication to education. I would just summarize everything like so
Boozer = Better Than Bargnani (short term 1yr - 2yr advantage more money that you don't pay)
Illyasova = Better Than Bargnani (long term 1yr - 10yr advantage less money that you don't pay)
Gasol = Better Than Bargnani (short term 1yr advantage even MORE money that you don't pay) (up to 5 yrs if he resigns)
Best Option Illysova
Better Option Gasol
Still Kinda Good Option Boozer
Not An Option Bargnani
I don't know how ANYONE using either stats, the eye test, advanced stats or METRO horoscope can't see this.For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar
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Matt52 wrote: View Postlol - it is like watching Bargnani minus the ability to rebound and score on the block.
http://www.hoopdata.com/teamadvancedstats.aspx
As of February 10 the Raptors are 23rd in Defensive Rating, 25 before the trade, 30th before Andrea's injury. 24th in Blocks. 29th in Charges. 19th in Steals. 14th in Defensive rebounding rate. 10th in Offensive rating, 12th before the trade, 19th before the injury. How does Boozer make the defense better?
Defense wins championships. Offense gets you free pizza.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostChemistry is bullshit. Talent matters. The Lakers won championships with guys hating each other. Guys liking each other is great but it is not necessary. I don't like all the people I work with but we are still successful in our industry. I am also glad to see you are not saying any of these things are guaranteed because it sounds like you are full of shit - seriously. Statistical evidence please. Boozer has been a part of plus .500 teams since 2005/06 and has been in the playoffs since 2006/07.Heir, Prince of Cambridge
If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.
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bobbybutler wrote: View PostCan't get rebounds on made shots. 30 minutes of lazy defense(Boozer) is worse than 15 of lazy defense(Bargnani). 5 minutes of lazy defense(Amir) is better.
http://www.hoopdata.com/teamadvancedstats.aspx
As of February 10 the Raptors are 23rd in Defensive Rating, 25 before the trade, 30th before Andrea's injury. 24th in Blocks. 29th in Charges. 19th in Steals. 14th in Defensive rebounding rate. 10th in Offensive rating, 12th before the trade, 19th before the injury. How does Boozer make the defense better?
Defense wins championships. Offense gets you free pizza.
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bobbybutler wrote: View PostCan't get rebounds on made shots. 30 minutes of lazy defense(Boozer) is worse than 15 of lazy defense(Bargnani). 5 minutes of lazy defense(Amir) is better.
http://www.hoopdata.com/teamadvancedstats.aspx
As of February 10 the Raptors are 23rd in Defensive Rating, 25 before the trade, 30th before Andrea's injury. 24th in Blocks. 29th in Charges. 19th in Steals. 14th in Defensive rebounding rate. 10th in Offensive rating, 12th before the trade, 19th before the injury. How does Boozer make the defense better?
Defense wins championships. Offense gets you free pizza.Matt52 wrote: View PostFunny that Boozer is playing 30 mins per game on a team that is 3rd in opp/PPG and 4th in defRtg.
The Raptors are currently 25th in the league in rebounding. Boozer is averaging almost 10 rebs a game despite playing alongside Noah who gets 11rebs a game playing 38mins a game. He's instantly going to be the Raptors best rebounder if he joins the team.
Defense? his DRating is currently at 100, only 3 pts lower then Noah who is the Bulls best defender. Boozer's defense has steadily improved throughout the years.Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Fri Feb 15, 2013, 03:40 PM.
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thead wrote: View PostI admire your dedication to education. I would just summarize everything like so
Boozer = Better Than Bargnani (short term 1yr - 2yr advantage more money that you don't pay)
Illyasova = Better Than Bargnani (long term 1yr - 10yr advantage less money that you don't pay)
Gasol = Better Than Bargnani (short term 1yr advantage even MORE money that you don't pay) (up to 5 yrs if he resigns)
Best Option Illysova
Better Option Gasol
Still Kinda Good Option Boozer
Not An Option Bargnani
I don't know how ANYONE using either stats, the eye test, advanced stats or METRO horoscope can't see this.
I would also add that amnestying Bargnani is a stupid option.
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TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View PostAnd whats funnier, is he outlined the Raptors statistical rankings defensively, then asks How Boozer makes defense better. Shouldnt you have outlined Chicago's statistics instead?Heir, Prince of Cambridge
If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.
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