I still wouldn't do it. I'd keep Bargnani.
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TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View PostI dont really know why people hate score first PGs, frankly, i dont label them score first because theyre not trying to score first 100% of the time. Shouldnt it matter who takes the shot as long as the shot gets in the hole? Isnt that the objective of the game?
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jimmie wrote: View PostYou're still basing this move on getting rid of Bargnani. That's ludicrous, IMO. The Toronto Raptors do not NEED Carlos Boozer to be a more successful and talented team. They need something, but it doesn't have to be Carlos Boozer. There are much better ways to annually spend 15M a year on an old, declining PF.
As for stats, read my sig for my view on that.
And can you elaborate on what you mean by "old"? KG is 37 and still playing. Nash is 38 still playing. Kobe, Kidd, Pierce, Allen, still playing heavy minutes and are a lot older than Boozer.
Even if you dont use stats, you can clearly see that the Raps are in dire need of a rebounder and a bulky body to block the lanes. And Boozer has those qualities. And is available to acquire.
Whats the issue? Cap space? Its just 2 years.
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Matt52 wrote: View Post
The bold is a good point. Replace Gibson's name with Amir.
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostThis is one of the things that bugs me though. It's an easy move to swallow now because of the talent upgrade, but then you're left with a guy you're paying 15 million sit out the end of close games. In the end, we get basically all the same issues as Bargnani, just a more efficient scorer and rebounder. I get your reasoning, because you compare Boozer to Bargnani so it's an upgrade. But I can't help but compare Boozer to other options(that I hope are there now or would be in the summer). I keep hoping another deal is out there...hopefully Milwaukee decides to blow it up. I would wait until the offseason to revisit this trade....but I hope BC at the very least has the patience to wait til the end of this trade season, since it really seems Chicago's not got any other options. And like we both agree on, he should really try to get a pick off them...really, they have no bargaining power, and as a cheapskate team, chances are they will end up trading that pick rather than add guaranteed money next season.
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Why didnt they do this with Bargnani??
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...ve-In-Contract
Couldve helped.
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mixed feelings but starting to come around. I was initially in the camp of hold on to him and see what we can get in the summer but it appears that there is a deadline coming up regarding the luxury tax that puts an extra ace in colangelo's hand that he won't have this summer. It's nice to say we'd rather have someone else but are we really going to get someone else for him?
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jimmie wrote: View PostYou're still basing this move on getting rid of Bargnani. That's ludicrous, IMO. The Toronto Raptors do not NEED Carlos Boozer to be a more successful and talented team. They need something, but it doesn't have to be Carlos Boozer. There are much better ways to annually spend 15M a year on an old, declining PF.
As for stats, read my sig for my view on that.
Due to the CBA, and even with the amnesty, the Raptors have no way to spend the money elsewhere. Obviously Bargnani is going to return jack shit and it is painfully clear that his value is never going up. He is what he is.
As for unfounded and baseless opinions, maybe I should look at editing my sig for my views on that.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostI can't wait to read the Bulls' fans messages should this deal happen.
Boozer is still a better player - both offensively and defensively - than Bargnani.
This season Boozer OffRtg 101; DefRtg 100
This season Bargnani OffRtg 95; DefRtg 110
Boozer career OffRtg 110; DefRtg 102
Bargnani career OffRtg 103; DefRtg 111
Not to mention Boozer actually hits the glass and gives you 8.5 more possessions per 48 minutes.
Noah-101.5/106.0/-4.5
Boozer -105.6/98.5/+7.0
Andrea-111.2/109.1/+2.0
Amir-107.2/112.6/-5.4
Net is the key number. Boozer derense has a larger negative impact for his team than Andrea does.
Raptors have a better DRR than the Bulls.
15 minutes of Bargnani is better than 30 minutes of Boozer sums up their reaction. They think Andrea can help space the floor for Rose, Deng and Noah. In two years they will replace him with Nikola Mirotic.
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bobbybutler wrote: View PostDefensive Rating, ON/OFF/NET
Noah-101.5/106.0/-4.5
Boozer -105.6/98.5/+7.0
Andrea-111.2/109.1/+2.0
Amir-107.2/112.6/-5.4
Net is the key number. Boozer derense has a larger negative impact for his team than Andrea does.
Raptors have a better DRR than the Bulls.
15 minutes of Bargnani is better than 30 minutes of Boozer sums up their reaction. They think Andrea can help space the floor for Rose, Deng and Noah. In two years they will replace him with Nikola Mirotic.
Same. In two years the Raps either replace Boozer with a better player, or cap space.
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostThis is one of the things that bugs me though. It's an easy move to swallow now because of the talent upgrade, but then you're left with a guy you're paying 15 million sit out the end of close games. In the end, we get basically all the same issues (at least on D, where he may even be worse as a man defender) as Bargnani, just a more efficient scorer and rebounder. I get your reasoning, because you compare Boozer to Bargnani so it's an upgrade. But I can't help but compare Boozer to other options(that I hope are there now or would be in the summer). I keep hoping another deal is out there...hopefully Milwaukee decides to blow it up. I would wait until the offseason to revisit this trade....but I hope BC at the very least has the patience to wait til the end of this trade season, since it really seems Chicago's not got any other options. And like we both agree on, he should really try to get a pick off them...really, they have no bargaining power, and as a cheapskate team, chances are they will end up trading that pick rather than add guaranteed money next season.
If Milwaukee seeks to move Ilyasova, they are going to have more suitors than Toronto and better assets coming back than Bargnani.
Also, lets look at career defensive ratings:
Boozer 102
Ilyasova 103
Millsap 104
Looking at this season:
Boozer 100
Ilyasova 103
Millsap 104
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Jclaw wrote: View Postmixed feelings but starting to come around. I was initially in the camp of hold on to him and see what we can get in the summer but it appears that there is a deadline coming up regarding the luxury tax that puts an extra ace in colangelo's hand that he won't have this summer. It's nice to say we'd rather have someone else but are we really going to get someone else for him?
This is why I keep hoping the Bucks decide to blow it up...and honestly, at this point and with the rumors, I think it is exactly what BC is waiting to see. If they trade Jennings, they're blowing it up. They might be willing to let go of Ilyasova for Bargs for the shorter commitment, and, as we all know, if you're going to suck for a year or two, who better to feature than Bargs?
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Matt52 wrote: View PostUnfortunately while patience is a good thing, at some point you have to make a move. Chicago's deadline to avoid the tax is February 21st.
If Milwaukee seeks to move Ilyasova, they are going to have more suitors than Toronto and better assets coming back than Bargnani.
Also, lets look at career defensive ratings:
Boozer 102
Ilyasova 103
Millsap 104
Looking at this season:
Boozer 100
Ilyasova 103
Millsap 104
If this is the only deal they've really got for Boozer, why should we care if they end up paying the luxury tax?? If they can't trade Boozer, and end up paying the tax, they will still be trying to unload him so they don't end up doing so again next year. None of this affects Toronto in any way, at least if BC decides he wants to wait. I feel like you basically don't think this deal will still be here in the summer...or that it will be worse??? I don't feel it's that huge a difference maker in the short run (could care less between just missing or squeaking into the playoffs to get smashed by Miami), so if it's more for the next 2 years anyway, what is the risk of waiting???
I mean, if this is Chicago's preferred deal, how much worse must their other options be...if they have any...
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I personally like the trade but I'm hoping I'm not fooled by it. There are a few things that come to mind when I see it
1. Tom Thibodeau is one of the best defensive coaches in the league, while Casey is aswell Thibs is on another level IMO. Could boozers DRting be inflated by the coach.
2. Probably my worst concern is injury. No doubt boozer>bargs but if boozer gets injured which he has a large history of, is Nate Robinson+16 Mil./yr> Bargnani and Lucas?
3. Financial- probably the least of my concerns but if I'm not mistaken if this trade happens raptors lose the MLE and only get the mini MLE. Correct? This limits the raptors from getting any better.
Would they be a playoff team? Yes.
Would they be contenders?
Probably not.
Would they have the flexibility to become contenders?
Definitely not.
This trade puts us in an Atlanta situation. Constantly in the playoffs but never good enough to be considered a contender.
Again I'm all for this trade. Raptors won big time talent for talent. But they're are so many ways that this trade could end up hurting us, I find myself 2nd guessing it.
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