Everything Derozan

[Axel]

DD's max from Toronto is 5 years / $144.6M (with a starting salary of $25.1M and an average of $28.9M).

Masai was able to resign JV to a reasonable $16M/year extension. With the cap going up, that's an amazing deal. He gave Lowry $12M/year contract when he was being chased by the likes of Houston, Miami and LA.

My point is that I don't think Masai is going to give him that $144M contract. If he's back (and for me its still up in the air), I suspect it will be a 4 year deal, with possibly a player option in that 4th year. And if anything his average deal will be about $25M, not $29M.

If I had to guess right now, I think Masai gives him a 4 year / $85M deal, with the last year a player option. His starting salary will be about $20M.

I don't quite understand why people seem to expect DD to take less.

Lowry had finally found a home after several unsuccessful stops. His deal was lowered in part with his reputation.

JV was a RFA. Why he took less than Kanter is a good question but OKC was a lot more desperate to lock him up with Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka coming up. JV was also "under producing" based on his minutes/touches.

Are there any real compelling reasons why so many feel that DD will take less than the max (assuming it is offered by another team)?

[raptors999]

I don't quite understand why people seem to expect DD to take less.

Lowry had finally found a home after several unsuccessful stops. His deal was lowered in part with his reputation.

JV was a RFA. Why he took less than Kanter is a good question but OKC was a lot more desperate to lock him up with Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka coming up. JV was also "under producing" based on his minutes/touches.

Are there any real compelling reasons why so many feel that DD will take less than the max (assuming it is offered by another team)?

Because hes a SG that cant shoot 3s and isnt an above avg defender. Other Max guys dont require floor spacers and 3-D guys too to be effective. If Lowry walks next year Demar would struggle with CoJo

[planetmars]

I don't quite understand why people seem to expect DD to take less.

Lowry had finally found a home after several unsuccessful stops. His deal was lowered in part with his reputation.

JV was a RFA. Why he took less than Kanter is a good question but OKC was a lot more desperate to lock him up with Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka coming up. JV was also "under producing" based on his minutes/touches.

Are there any real compelling reasons why so many feel that DD will take less than the max (assuming it is offered by another team)?

Kanter got his offer from Portland, and OKC matched.. so why would Portland be willing to give that to him? They're not desperate. JV even when underutilized has had a better career than Kanter. I think Masai is a good negotiator and JV came back because he likes Toronto.

I see DD in a similar light.. I suspect he'd want to come back to Toronto. But I don't think Masai would be foolish enough to give him $28.9M a year. I am still under the impression that Masai is going to go after KD, and will clean up the books to be able to. That will probably mean DD will get offers from other teams. But if Masai wanted DD back I don't think he'd give him the max. There is one thing to keep an asset so that it can be leveraged for other assets down the line. There is another to be handcuffed in a deal that's hard to get out of and makes the team worse in the process.

$28.9M a year for DD would break the Raptors... and I have too much faith in Masai not to do that.

[Barolt]

Because hes a SG that cant shoot 3s and isnt an above avg defender. Other Max guys dont require floor spacers and 3-D guys too to be effective. If Lowry walks next year Demar would struggle with CoJo

If Masai offers DD a contract that low, LA comes in with a max offer and he's gone. He might like Toronto, but I don't think he values how much he likes Toronto at $50 million.

[Joey]

I don't quite understand why people seem to expect DD to take less.

Lowry had finally found a home after several unsuccessful stops. His deal was lowered in part with his reputation.

JV was a RFA. Why he took less than Kanter is a good question but OKC was a lot more desperate to lock him up with Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka coming up. JV was also "under producing" based on his minutes/touches.

Are there any real compelling reasons why so many feel that DD will take less than the max (assuming it is offered by another team)?

The Max from another team is less than the Max from Toronto. So even if another team offers Max, that doesn't mean Masai is obligated to sign him to our Max. Something less than Max from us could still equal a full offer from another team... I think. Lol

And as planetmars pointed, Masai has proven several times in the past to be a shrewd negotiator. Pretty sure its documented that Lowry was offered more to play elsewhere (Lakers I think?)

[planetmars]

A max from another team is still high in my opinion... $26.8M a year for 4 years ($107.4M total with a starting salary of $25.1M). Still don't believe Masai would give that to DD even if he wanted it.

[Joey]

A max from another team is still high in my opinion... $26.8M a year for 4 years ($107.4M total with a starting salary of $25.1M). Still don't believe Masai would give that to DD even if he wanted it.

Oh I completely agree, just laying out the first reason that came to mind as to why Masai isn't handcuffed to sign him to a Max deal.

[psrs1]

Concerns concerns concerns. Meh.

Did our concerns stop a 4 game sweep in last year's playoffs?

Who knows if it will translate? I guess we'll find out if and when we get to the playoffs.

Why worry about something we have no control over? The guy played great and we won. It seems there will always be concerns after every big game until we get to the playoffs and see the results.



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In my view all that really matters at the end of the day is playoff performance. Perhaps you view things differently.

[Axel]

Kanter got his offer from Portland, and OKC matched.. so why would Portland be willing to give that to him? They're not desperate. JV even when underutilized has had a better career than Kanter. I think Masai is a good negotiator and JV came back because he likes Toronto.

I see DD in a similar light.. I suspect he'd want to come back to Toronto. But I don't think Masai would be foolish enough to give him $28.9M a year. I am still under the impression that Masai is going to go after KD, and will clean up the books to be able to. That will probably mean DD will get offers from other teams. But if Masai wanted DD back I don't think he'd give him the max. There is one thing to keep an asset so that it can be leveraged for other assets down the line. There is another to be handcuffed in a deal that's hard to get out of and makes the team worse in the process.

$28.9M a year for DD would break the Raptors... and I have too much faith in Masai not to do that.

True I did forget about Portland, but they were looking to quickly reload after losing LMA, had the cap space and knew that OKC matching would limit OKC in future deals.

Has JV really produced more than Kanter? The JV deal is weird but again, don't think RFA and UFA negotiations are particularly comparable.

[special1]

In my view all that really matters at the end of the day is playoff performance. Perhaps you view things differently.

Perhaps.

Regular season games determines playoff seeding/matchups....The 82 games matter as well. I watch them all. Tons of highlights. Can't take too much from one game though.

Talk to me about playoff performance when we get to the finals or conference finals.





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[mcHAPPY]

The Max from another team is less than the Max from Toronto. So even if another team offers Max, that doesn't mean Masai is obligated to sign him to our Max. Something less than Max from us could still equal a full offer from another team... I think. Lol

And as planetmars pointed, Masai has proven several times in the past to be a shrewd negotiator. Pretty sure its documented that Lowry was offered more to play elsewhere (Lakers I think?)

It is the yearly raises and 5th year that make a Raptor max more for DeMar.

7.5 vs 4.5% annual raises
5 years vs 4

[JWash]

The Max from another team is less than the Max from Toronto. So even if another team offers Max, that doesn't mean Masai is obligated to sign him to our Max. Something less than Max from us could still equal a full offer from another team... I think. Lol

And as planetmars pointed, Masai has proven several times in the past to be a shrewd negotiator. Pretty sure its documented that Lowry was offered more to play elsewhere (Lakers I think?)

I think best case scenario Masai is going to give him longer term than other teams can offer, but slightly less per year than the max.

Something like 5yr/125M. Average cap hit of 25M over the life of the deal. He'd be getting more total money than he could from any other team by about $18M, and extra year of security while making about $2M less per year.

[Barolt]

Perhaps.

Regular season games determines playoff seeding/matchups....The 82 games matter as well. I watch them all. Tons of highlights. Can't take too much from one game though.

Talk to me about playoff performance when we get to the finals or conference finals.





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Do you see that happening this year? I'm asking honestly. I have a hard time finding good first and second round playoff matchups for us, especially if Kyle's MVP form from November isn't coming back.

[JWash]

It is the yearly raises and 5th year that make a Raptor max more for DeMar.

7.5 vs 4.5% annual raises
5 years vs 4

Yeah max from another team is approximately 4yrs/$107M, max from us is about 5yrs/$145M.

I think (again assuming he maintains his play all year) his deal if re-signed by Toronto will meet in the middle somewhere there.

What I'm hoping for at this point is a max deal but flat rate, no increase for 5 years, so the 5yr/$125M that I mentioned earlier. So essentially the deal would get better as time goes by not worse.

[JWash]

Do you see that happening this year? I'm asking honestly. I have a hard time finding good first and second round playoff matchups for us, especially if Kyle's MVP form from November isn't coming back.

This is just negative tbh. Conference finals is not out of the question if we get our hands on the 2/3 seed... or perhaps even the #1 overall seed.

With 2 or 3 you're looking at probably getting inexperienced playoff teams like Boston, Detroit, Orlando, etc in the first round (not saying these are gimmes, just stating facts), and then the 2nd round matchup is probably very tough with it likely being Indiana, Miami or Chicago unless someone gets upset, but those teams aren't unbeatable.