Everything Derozan

[Joey]

If he becomes more of a facilitator, it will open up his shot. If he plays better defense, it will lead to run outs. It's all tied together. The quickest and easiest way for him to score more points is to play a complete game. Don't worry about the points, the game will come to you.

Casey needs to write this on that stupid card, and leave it at that.

[Barolt]

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean that 2 games all of a sudden becomes enough to make ANY sort of conclusions off of. Its 2 games.

You notice that on that list, none of those guys played more than 5 games in that playoff year?

The reason for that is pretty easy to guess.

[Chr1s1anL]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws

The list of guys, ever, who have had 30+ MPG, 25%+ usage and below 30% eFG in the playoffs. Notice how DeMar has the highest usage on that list?

He's not having a bad playoffs. He's having a historically bad playoffs.

How about we wait till the series is over?

[Joey]

You notice that on that list, none of those guys played more than 5 games in that playoff year?

The reason for that is pretty easy to guess.

But you seem to be implying that Demar is the only one struggling, and thus will be the sole reason for us losing, if in fact we do (which I'm not at all convinced of just yet). Did either of those guys have another one of their teammates on the same list, from the same playoff series? Nope.

[KeonClark]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws

The list of guys, ever, who have had 30+ MPG, 25%+ usage and below 30% eFG in the playoffs. Notice how DeMar has the highest usage on that list?

He's not having a bad playoffs. He's having a historically bad playoffs.

He's having a historically bad TWO games. Cmon Barolt. If we pulled out different 2 game sample sizes of your boy ross thru out his career, to quote sam Mitchell, we'd see stat lines of: zeeero, zeeero, zeeero.

[Chr1s1anL]

He's having a historically bad TWO games. Cmon Barolt. If we pulled out different 2 game sample sizes of your boy ross thru out his career, to quote sam Mitchell, we'd see stat lines of: zeeero, zeeero, zeeero.

Man, I remember when he said that lol.

[Barolt]

He's having a historically bad TWO games. Cmon Barolt. If we pulled out different 2 game sample sizes of your boy ross thru out his career, to quote sam Mitchell, we'd see stat lines of: zeeero, zeeero, zeeero.

That's completely fair. But I'd guess if you looked for a 2-game stretch of Ross' career where he played 33.5 MPG and averaged 29% usage, that two game stretch doesn't exist.

Also, DeMar's our All-Star. Everyone tells me it's about 'We need more All-Stars!!!', so shouldn't we hold those guys to a higher accountability?

[Joey]

That's completely fair. But I'd guess if you looked for a 2-game stretch of Ross' career where he played 33.5 MPG and averaged 29% usage, that two game stretch doesn't exist.

Give Ross Demars average usage and I promise you he doesn't put up a 21.5 PER and 9.9WS.

Also, DeMar's our All-Star. Everyone tells me it's about 'We need more All-Stars!!!', so shouldn't we hold those guys to a higher accountability?

Of course, but that doesn't mean shitting all over the guy when he has a bad couple games while being guarded by a Top-5 Defender in the League.

[KeonClark]

That's completely fair. But I'd guess if you looked for a 2-game stretch of Ross' career where he played 33.5 MPG and averaged 29% usage, that two game stretch doesn't exist.

Also, DeMar's our All-Star. Everyone tells me it's about 'We need more All-Stars!!!', so shouldn't we hold those guys to a higher accountability?

Trust me, we're holding him to a higher accountability lol. I was hard on him post game. But 2 days later, we're starting to run out of new and fresh ways to say "you suck!!" He's still a member of OUR toronto raptors and at this point I've switched to getting behind him for game 3 not continuing to harp on games 1 and 2

[Barolt]

Give Ross Demars average usage and I promise you he doesn't put up a 21.5 PER and 9.9WS.



Of course, but that doesn't mean shitting all over the guy when he has a bad couple games while being guarded by a Top-5 Defender in the League.

It's not just about the scoring though. One of the biggest improvements both guys, Ross and DeMar, made this season was being effective defensively and as teammates even when they aren't scoring.

That other stuff has gone right out the window in the two playoff games so far. Creating for teammates? Not enough of that from DeMar.(8.4 potential assists/game during the season, 6.5 potential assists/game during the playoffs) Defense? He's been awful.

We need the other stuff just as much as we need his scoring.

[Joey]

It's not just about the scoring though. One of the biggest improvements both guys, Ross and DeMar, made this season was being effective defensively and as teammates even when they aren't scoring.

That other stuff has gone right out the window in the two playoff games so far. Creating for teammates? Not enough of that from DeMar.(8.4 potential assists/game during the season, 6.5 potential assists/game during the playoffs) Defense? He's been awful.

We need the other stuff just as much as we need his scoring.

I agree with you, but PER and WS don't just take into account Scoring .. do they?

Regardless, we need Demar to be better. I think we all agree on that.

[Barolt]

I agree with you, but PER and WS don't just take into account Scoring .. do they?

Regardless, we need Demar to be better. I think we all agree on that.

PER really rewards high usage scoring. Doesn't have any defensive component. Win Shares is the unadjusted stat, adjusted for minutes, with WS/48 DeMar's .169 is nice, but JV and Lowry were way ahead of him.

[Bendit]

This kinda stuff scares me.

Oh I dont know. He is stubborn...yes. But I am hoping with the help of private conversations with a Lowry or PP he adjusts his game. I'd rather he display confidence in his abilities rather than crumble under the pressure. It would do no good to anyone to be otherwise. He also wisely does not mention any contemplated change/s since this gives strategy away. I think the article tried to display what is not inconsistent with what long time watchers of DD's personality have been used to.

My own hope is that he stops handling the ball in traffic. This is not his forte (old deficiency) and more so because he is being keyed on. The coaches should help with this and run plays for him inside at least to begin with and get the confidence going from his traditional sweet spots.

[Axel]

Regardless, we need Demar to be better. I think we all agree on that.

I refuse to agree with anything.

[Joey]

PER really rewards high usage scoring. Doesn't have any defensive component. Win Shares is the unadjusted stat, adjusted for minutes, with WS/48 DeMar's .169 is nice, but JV and Lowry were way ahead of him.

Fair, but I wasn't compairing Demar to JV or Lowry, since we can't replace Demar with JV or Lowry in the Starting 5.
I was comparing him to his replacements (Ross and lesser degree Powell).. neither of which would be able to sustain his level of production, while being given his level of Usage. And yes, his usage could/should be lower, but thats how Casey runs the team, and thats the card we're dealt.