Everything Derozan

[special1]

settle down man. i've defended demar a lot before, while still being able to criticize him. i'm the one who said that despite what everyone says about playoff basketball, he still averaged more in the brooklyn series in FTs then he did in the regular season (therefore still having his one elite skill be useful in the post-season)

but these past couple of series vs pacers and heat? you gotta be fucking kidding me if you're trying to convince anyone with a sane mind that demar was actually good for us.

theres a reason he had to sit out an entire 4th quarter vs the pacers in order for us to win.

Some games had me pulling my hair out. However, you're talking about ONE 4th quarter where he was playing really bad and the team was rolling. It happens sometimes.

[special1]

Lowry and DeMar on court together: 76-57 (+19) in 31 minutes together, +32 net rating.

Lowry on court without DeMar: 25-14 (+11) in 10 minutes, +65 net rating.

DeMar on court without Lowry: 10-15 (-5) in 4 minutes, -63 net rating.

Lowry is awesome.

How many players have better numbers without Lowry than with him?

I like Cory Joseph, but he ain't no Lowry.

[ball4life]

Who's putting him on a pedestal? I take issue with some people saying he contributed nothing and that he didn't help the team win.

The playoffs didn't start well, but he showed up when it mattered. Can't take that away.

Please tell me what hes contributed that is above replacement level?

He had one good game (game 5 vs Heat) in 14 tries. That is an embarrassing fact. .....you said he showed up when it mattered.. which instance exactly are you speaking of here?

[92TillInfinity]

Lowry and DeMar on court together: 76-57 (+19) in 31 minutes together, +32 net rating.

Lowry on court without DeMar: 25-14 (+11) in 10 minutes, +65 net rating.

DeMar on court without Lowry: 10-15 (-5) in 4 minutes, -63 net rating.

I would assume the Lowry w/o DeMar is mainly Lowry bullying other team's bench players?

[Nilanka]

Lowry and DeMar on court together: 76-57 (+19) in 31 minutes together, +32 net rating.

Lowry on court without DeMar: 25-14 (+11) in 10 minutes, +65 net rating.

DeMar on court without Lowry: 10-15 (-5) in 4 minutes, -63 net rating.

What do these numbers look like for all 14 games combined?

[DanH]

Lowry is awesome.

How many players have better numbers without Lowry than with him?

I like Cory Joseph, but he ain't no Lowry.

No one.

I'm not looking for "better." I'm looking for "non-disastrous."

We're supposed to have two stars on this team, but the on off splits are saying we have one.

[Just Is]

Some games had me pulling my hair out. However, you're talking about ONE 4th quarter where he was playing really bad and the team was rolling. It happens sometimes.

It didn't happen only one time. It would have happened at least one more time against Miami if Lowry didn't foul out (Game 4) and also looked to be happening in Game 7.

Personally, I've thought Demar has gotten a lot of unearned hate BUT he has not gotten a lot of unearned criticism. If it matches the eye test ... if it matches the stat sheets ... it's not hate. It's dealing with absolutes.

Hell, even the ABC crew pointed out that Demar had a lot of points but took even more shots to get them.

Lowry is awesome.

How many players have better numbers without Lowry than with him?

I like Cory Joseph, but he ain't no Lowry.

While I absolutely agree that everyone on the team plays better when Lowry's on the court; the fact of the matter is, the team has also looked a LOT better when Demar's been sitting this playoffs and PLAYED a lot differently with him sitting. And that's not an opinion or hate; that's a fact that's WELL supported (via eye test or stats; take your pick, any metric will support this).

Demar's a better player than he's shown this playoffs (without a doubt) but he's not playing like that and he's playing like the absolute worst version of himself. The version who doesn't see a shot that he doesn't like. In game 7; his sole assist came as a result of Lowry hitting a VERY deep three late in the clock. The whole game; it felt like any time he touched the ball ... the ball wasn't seeing anyone else.

To say that we wouldn't make it this far without Demar is just insane. He has NOT been good this playoffs. His offence has been bad and his defense has been even bad by his standards. It's very hard to ignore this.

[special1]

Please tell me what hes contributed that is above replacement level?

He had one good game (game 5 vs Heat) in 14 tries. That is an embarrassing fact. .....you said he showed up when it mattered.. which instance exactly are you speaking of here?

The last 3 games against the Heat were actually pretty good. Shot over 43 percent and averaged 28 ppg 5 rebounds....

I guess that's not good enough for you? Are you Michael? Michael Jordan is that you?

It's not easy when teams try to take away your strengths. He's a scorer....says so on the placards he got from Casey at the beginning of the season.

If he can occupy the other team's best defender.... Then that means he's helping the team. No replacement level player is going to do that while putting up 28 ppg over that stretch and you know it.

[Just Is]

I would assume the Lowry w/o DeMar is mainly Lowry bullying other team's bench players?

By that logic; wouldn't it mean DeMar without Lowry is also against the other team's bench players?

[special1]

No one.

I'm not looking for "better." I'm looking for "non-disastrous."

We're supposed to have two stars on this team, but the on off splits are saying we have one.

Show me the other players numbers (to be fair). If -5 is disastrous we better be seeing a lot hole of positives for the other guys.

[DanH]

What do these numbers look like for all 14 games combined?

Together, +5 net rating.

Lowry, without DeMar: +6.4 net rating (+17 plus minus in 135 minutes).

DeMar, without Lowry: -39 net rating (-65 plus minus in 104 minutes).

[DanH]

Show me the other players numbers (to be fair). If -5 is disastrous we better be seeing a lot hole of positives for the other guys.

The other guys are not "all-stars." If we laud a player for that accomplishment, it comes with an expectation that they will drive performance of the team to some degree.

[Mess]

If he can occupy the other team's best defender.... Then that means he's helping the team. No replacement level player is going to do that while putting up 28 ppg over that stretch and you know it.

What does "occupying a defender" mean to you? Jacking up a contested shot over them? Cause that's what it means to DeMar. I guess he did abuse Tyler Johnson a lot though. Good for him.

[Nilanka]

Together, +5 net rating.

Lowry, without DeMar: +6.4 net rating (+17 plus minus in 135 minutes).

DeMar, without Lowry: -39 net rating (-65 plus minus in 104 minutes).

How can anyone look at these numbers and have the audacity to suggest DeRozan is helping us win playoff games?

[Nilanka]

How to be a DeRozan fan in the face of stats: