Everything Derozan

[Miekenstien]

I'm aware of that. Simply stating that Klay is criminally underpaid whereas DeRozan is about to be vastly overpaid. He stands to benefit from being a free agent at the perfect time. The market will determine he's a max guy. No disputing that. But in terms of production and proven ability? He's nowhere near a max player. Only the former matters now though.

Only the former has always only mattered.

I think that the days of Toronto having to or choosing to overpay for players are gone. The novelty of an NBA team is gone. We are in this to win and you don't win with overpays.

Sent from my HUAWEI TAG-TL00 using Tapatalk

[Sinbad]

Only the former has always only mattered.

I think that the days of Toronto having to or choosing to overpay for players are gone. The novelty of an NBA team is gone. We are in this to win and you don't win with overpays.

Sent from my HUAWEI TAG-TL00 using Tapatalk

I agree that you don't win with overpays. But its impossible not to look at what DeRozan is in line to receive and not see it as a drastic overpay due to drastically shifting cap economics. It reminds me of the Rashard Lewis deal that Orlando made that was widely panned as an overpay at the time.

[Gambino]

I agree that you don't win with overpays. But its impossible not to look at what DeRozan is in line to receive and not see it as a drastic overpay due to drastically shifting cap economics. It reminds me of the Rashard Lewis deal that Orlando made that was widely panned as an overpay at the time.

Lewis was one of the main reasons Orlando was able to beat Cleveland in 2009. He created massive mismatch problems for the Cavs.

[Miekenstien]

I agree that you don't win with overpays. But its impossible not to look at what DeRozan is in line to receive and not see it as a drastic overpay due to drastically shifting cap economics. It reminds me of the Rashard Lewis deal that Orlando made that was widely panned as an overpay at the time.

By definition, market value isn't an overpay.

Sent from my HUAWEI TAG-TL00 using Tapatalk

[Sinbad]

Lewis was one of the main reasons Orlando was able to beat Cleveland in 2009. He created massive mismatch problems for the Cavs.

Absolutley. He was a highly effective role player. Emphasis on role player. Everything on Orlando revolved around Dwight and Turkoglu. He filled a niche, and ran with it.

[Sinbad]

By definition, market value isn't an overpay.

Sent from my HUAWEI TAG-TL00 using Tapatalk

By definition, no, market value isn't an overpay. But when we measure DD against his peers at the SG position? It's absolutely an overpay. It's a wild new world in the NBA.

[Miekenstien]

By definition, no, market value isn't an overpay. But when we measure DD against his peers at the SG position? It's absolutely an overpay. It's a wild new world in the NBA.

Would you prefer to max demar or beal?

Who are the other 2 guards this year that are eligible? The next 3 years are going to see some incredible bargains followed by massive player movement.

Sent from my HUAWEI TAG-TL00 using Tapatalk

[Yuri Gagarin]

neither demar or beal, Ross will not be a big drop in production if at all with more pt and more shots esp considering he plays D. Then you have Powell and Lowry to back Ross up.

[Miekenstien]

neither demar or beal, Ross will not be a big drop in production if at all with more pt and more shots esp considering he plays D. Then you have Powell and Lowry to back Ross up.

It is an oranges to oranges argument. Those are demars peers. Klay Thompson isn't. The free agent class of 2016 is. Next year lesser players than demar will get more money than demar.

Sent from my HUAWEI TAG-TL00 using Tapatalk

[Yuri Gagarin]

It is an oranges to oranges argument. Those are demars peers. Klay Thompson isn't. The free agent class of 2016 is. Next year lesser players than demar will get more money than demar.

Sent from my HUAWEI TAG-TL00 using Tapatalk

but most teams will have more money than us. just re-signing Derozen minus Biz alone and the team is worse and has less room to improve. Guaranteed we dont reach 56 wins signing DD to max.

[Miekenstien]

but most teams will have more money than us. just re-signing Derozen minus Biz alone and the team is worse and has less room to improve. Guaranteed we dont reach 56 wins signing DD to max.

Big guarantee. Your word as a man is on the line now. Of course if he doesn't get the full max then you're off the hook.

Sent from my HUAWEI TAG-TL00 using Tapatalk

[Abbas]

Its 3:30 am right now and I have to wake up at 7:30am but I for some reason cannot sleep. The past two hours I read numerous articles on the raptors and NBA. All I want right now is for us to be a championship team. Demar DeRozan, I Love You man, hopefully you can help deliver a championship to Toronto and have your number hang from the ceiling. Anyways, Goodnight. #WeTheNorth

[Miekenstien]

UFAs
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agen...hooting-guard/
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agen...small-forward/

RFAs
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agen...small-forward/
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agen...hooting-guard/

some of these guys are going to make demars contract look like a bargain. i don't think there is a max level guy other than durant in the whole bunch. someone might throw max at batum, barnes, beal demanded it. someone could try and throw money at fournier. who knows what the market says evan turner is worth. someone might be stupid to throw money a waiters or even gordon, who is coming off a max deal.

[Axel]

Here from ESPN 5 on 5

2. Should the Raptors max out DeMar DeRozan, a likely free agent?

Elhassan: Yes, for two reasons. 1. Because he wants to be there, and that's crucial to building any sort of sustainable culture of success. 2. Because regardless of how you feel about his current market value, in a year the inevitable cap inflation will correct for it and he'll increase in value by default.

Pelton: Yes. I'm admittedly not the world's biggest fan of DeRozan's game. The question is, what's the alternative? The Raptors would have to let all their free agents walk to have enough cap space to sign a replacement, and even then they'd be shopping from the second tier with sub-max money.
Re-signing DeRozan and looking for a trade is the best strategy if Toronto does want to break up its backcourt.

Doolittle: In a vacuum, I don't think he's worth it, but despite his shortcomings, as shown by advanced stats, DeRozan is still a guy in his prime who played 2,804 minutes on a 56-win team. You can't lose a player of that caliber just for some cap space that you're not likely to fill with a better free agent.

Engelmann: Given that DeRozan's Real Plus-Minus this season was 0.1, which is barely above average, and the team played six points per 100 possessions better when he was sitting I'm going to answer this question with a loud "No!"
DeRozan is the new Rudy Gay -- his scoring average makes you think he impacts the game in a positive way, but he simply doesn't.

Haberstroh: If I'm Ujiri, I'd offer him the max to save face, but I wouldn't shed tears if he left. The Raptors were far better with Kyle Lowry and Cory Joseph on the floor this season than Lowry and DeRozan. That doesn't necessary mean they're better off with him gone, but DeRozan's struggle to get to the line -- zero free throws in three playoff games after no such games in the regular season -- is concerning.

Interesting to see some media types offering more than the generic cursory glance assessments of the situation.

You can see the hesitancy from each of the "yes" that ultimately seems to come down to asset retention more than Demar actually being worth that much money.

Between Demar's comments yesterday and his poor performance in Rounds 1 and 2, more hopeful of a pretty significant discount. Doesn't sound like he plans to really play the free agency game at all.

[Apollo]

Here from ESPN 5 on 5

2. Should the Raptors max out DeMar DeRozan, a likely free agent?

Elhassan: Yes, for two reasons. 1. Because he wants to be there, and that's crucial to building any sort of sustainable culture of success. 2. Because regardless of how you feel about his current market value, in a year the inevitable cap inflation will correct for it and he'll increase in value by default.

Pelton: Yes. I'm admittedly not the world's biggest fan of DeRozan's game. The question is, what's the alternative? The Raptors would have to let all their free agents walk to have enough cap space to sign a replacement, and even then they'd be shopping from the second tier with sub-max money.
Re-signing DeRozan and looking for a trade is the best strategy if Toronto does want to break up its backcourt.

Doolittle: In a vacuum, I don't think he's worth it, but despite his shortcomings, as shown by advanced stats, DeRozan is still a guy in his prime who played 2,804 minutes on a 56-win team. You can't lose a player of that caliber just for some cap space that you're not likely to fill with a better free agent.

Engelmann: Given that DeRozan's Real Plus-Minus this season was 0.1, which is barely above average, and the team played six points per 100 possessions better when he was sitting I'm going to answer this question with a loud "No!"
DeRozan is the new Rudy Gay -- his scoring average makes you think he impacts the game in a positive way, but he simply doesn't.

Haberstroh: If I'm Ujiri, I'd offer him the max to save face, but I wouldn't shed tears if he left. The Raptors were far better with Kyle Lowry and Cory Joseph on the floor this season than Lowry and DeRozan. That doesn't necessary mean they're better off with him gone, but DeRozan's struggle to get to the line -- zero free throws in three playoff games after no such games in the regular season -- is concerning.

To paraphrase: yes, because it's the only logical conclusion.

People are too hung up on what he is and how much money as opposed to what people are willing to pay and what the Raptors do if they lose him for nothing.