Everything Derozan

[ogi]

I think the 'neither' numbers look so good because of the Indiana and San Antonio games late in the season where both guys sat.

But then... that's the second best team in the league, and the playoff team that DeMar struggled against, and our bench beat one of them and nearly beat the other without DeMar or Lowry, and with both of those teams playing their entire rotation.

and the 76ers almost beat golden state this year. The problem with miniscule samples.

[Barolt]

and the 76ers almost beat golden state this year. The problem with miniscule samples.

423 minutes with neither isn't a miniscule sample though, neither is 828 minutes with DeMar/without Lowry.

And the fact that we were overall better off without DeMar when Lowry was on the bench indicates a problem.

[Gambino]

If you let DeMar walk, and we don't improve next year or we regress I'm sure Lowry is gone. Now yeah the argument here is then we can rebuild, but why put ourselves in that situation? There is an advantage to being highly competitive each year even if you're not quite at that championship level. You establish your franchise as a legitimate and consistent threat every year.

And you never know if you might just get that lucky break that puts you over the top. It happened for Detroit with getting Sheed. Happened for Dallas with the Chandler trade.

[charlesnba23]

If you let DeMar walk, and we don't improve next year or we regress I'm sure Lowry is gone. Now yeah the argument here is then we can rebuild, but why put ourselves in that situation? There is an advantage to being highly competitive each year even if you're not quite at that championship level. You establish your franchise as a legitimate and consistent threat every year.

And you never know if you might just get that lucky break that puts you over the top. It happened for Detroit with getting Sheed. Happened for Dallas with the Chandler trade.

I like that argument.

[special1]

Are we committing $140 million to Powell, Ross or Carroll to carry our offense?

We have to commit to someone because those guys are not good enough to carry any offense. They are all worse ball handlers as well. I don't see how this helps Lowry in any way.

If you're suggesting we let Demar walk and we won't regress, you're de-lusional.

Carroll and Ross will be making 27 million combined for the next few years. So the question is....

Would you prefer to keep Demar or keep Carroll and Ross? If that's the choice, I say keep Demar and use those two to upgrade the PF position. Keep JJ and or grab a defensive SF. I honestly don't think we'd skip a beat. Carroll missed a shit ton of games (so did JV) and we still won 56 games.

Demar is more important than both of those guys. Neither Carroll or Ross can stop opposing SFs anyways.


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[Barolt]

We have to commit to someone because those guys are not good enough to carry any offense. They are all worse ball handlers as well. I don't see how this helps Lowry in any way.

If you're suggesting we let Demar walk and we won't regress, you're de-lusional.

Carroll and Ross will be making 27 million combined for the next few years. So the question is....

Would you prefer to keep Demar or keep Carroll and Ross? If that's the choice, I say keep Demar and use those two to upgrade the PF position. Keep JJ and or grab a defensive SF. I honestly don't think we'd skip a beat. Carroll missed a shit ton of games (so did JV) and we still won 56 games.

Demar is more important than both of those guys. Neither Carroll or Ross can stop opposing SFs anyways.


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Carroll AND Ross or DeMar?

I'd rather keep Carroll and Ross. If you get rid of both, who the hell spaces the floor for us?

[ogi]

423 minutes with neither isn't a miniscule sample though, neither is 828 minutes with DeMar/without Lowry.

And the fact that we were overall better off without DeMar when Lowry was on the bench indicates a problem.

I was responding to the second part of your comment.

The problem with trying to completely isolate player impact by using wowy is that it lacks context particularly when you're attempting to isolate two guys who are on the court nearly at all times.

It doesn't account for garbage time minutes which can make the "neither" lineups look good but is actually meaningless.

Also we had stretches where lowry was resting and derozan was playing in some weird lineups and we got blown out, as well as stretches where both got rested and the team played well.

Just this alone is enough to skew the numbers.

[Gambino]

Carroll AND Ross or DeMar?

I'd rather keep Carroll and Ross. If you get rid of both, who the hell spaces the floor for us?

I don't think the argument there was schemes moreso the value produced by the players. And even if your prorate Carroll's win shares for an 82 game season (3.8) DeRozan (9.9) had more win shares than both him and Ross combined (7.4), and he's projected to be making about the same money as them or maybe slightly less.

[Superjudge]

Also I think this is worth mentioning but there is at least some possibility DeRozan opts into the final year of his deal. Not much of a chance but possible.

hahaha I thought about this actually...... if they could swing Durant without losing DD...... I'm sure Masai has studied this immensely

[Gambino]

hahaha I thought about this actually...... if they could swing Durant without losing DD...... I'm sure Masai has studied this immensely

Well that wouldn't give you enough cap space for Durant. It would give us like 8 million in cap space. I don't think it was even worth mentioning on my part, just a very, very, very outside possibility.

[The Great One]

DeRozan yesterday: My focus is Toronto.

Lakers today: We're not that high on DeRozan.

Lol. Someone's butthurt.

Here's the reality with the Lakers, if you're a player who is serious about winning(I think DD is one) you're not going to go there. That franchise is in SERIOUS trouble. Unless they can sign a superstar like a Durant or a Westbrook or LeBron...That franchise is going to be bad for a looooooong time.

[Gambino]

History and bright lights only get you so far, TRex, you hit the nail on the head. Players for the most part want results on the court.

[Rudy Bargnani]

I was responding to the second part of your comment.

The problem with trying to completely isolate player impact by using wowy is that it lacks context particularly when you're attempting to isolate two guys who are on the court nearly at all times.

It doesn't account for garbage time minutes which can make the "neither" lineups look good but is actually meaningless.

Also we had stretches where lowry was resting and derozan was playing in some weird lineups and we got blown out, as well as stretches where both got rested and the team played well.

Just this alone is enough to skew the numbers.

I think this is a good point. I think I read New Orleans was better off with Anthony Davis on the bench this season using the above metrics. I think we would all agree that is ridiculous. And it wasn't a small sample size either.

Context is important.

[Raps07]

Question for Dan H ( or anyone with CBA knowledge) could we structure Dero's Max deal, so that the first year would only be 12 mil or so, to make room to sign Biz or whoever ?

[Barolt]

I think this is a good point. I think I read New Orleans was better off with Anthony Davis on the bench this season using the above metrics. I think we would all agree that is ridiculous. And it wasn't a small sample size either.

Context is important.

New Orleans was better offensively with AD on the bench this season, and worse defensively.

Which makes sense in a lot of ways, given how dysfunctional that team was and that AD took a step back this year, and wasn't as dominant. He had a lot of lackluster performances.