Everything Derozan

[Sinbad]

That would be a fair argument if these rankings were prognostications, but they're based on the season to date.

I agree with Lupe: Steph and KD are practically disqualified. And as usual CP3 is ignored for Blake, but they somewhat cancel each other out too.

With Kyle's slow shooting start DeMar should be ahead of all those guys.

They are based on the season to date, though its obvious that the players ranked above DeMar were extended the benefit of the doubt based on past accomplishments. There's no overlooking that.

And I disagree that Steph and KD are disqualified. LeBron won consecutive MVP awards despite having Bosh and Wade as teammates, so there is precedent for either of Curry or Durant to win one. And no, CP3 does not cancel out Blake, especially as he has regained his pre-injury form of a few years ago when he finished 3rd in MVP voting.

[Lupe]

Not sure where your anger towards the rankings is coming from. Let's be honest; the evaluators that compile these lists, analysts, and basketball media are waiting for the other shoe to drop with DeMar. What he's doing is remarkable, but it isn't sustainable. Compare his hot start to the players ranked ahead of him. They have all won either MVP, DPOY or a Scoring Title, had multiple All-Star selections, or achieved multiple All-NBA Team selections. They all have a body of work that they can fall back on. He, beyond 2 all-star selections, does not.

It's not an end of season prediction ranking, it's a race to MVP ladder based on the season to this point.

[Lupe]

They are based on the season to date, though its obvious that the players ranked above DeMar were extended the benefit of the doubt based on past accomplishments. There's no overlooking that.

And I disagree that Steph and KD are disqualified. LeBron won consecutive MVP awards despite having Bosh and Wade as teammates, so there is precedent for either of Curry or Durant to win one. And no, CP3 does not cancel out Blake, especially as he has regained his pre-injury form of a few years ago when he finished 3rd in MVP voting.

LeBron joined a 47 win team and made it into a title contender as the clear-cut best player. KD joined a 73 win team. The precedent doesn't even apply to this situation.

[Sinbad]

LeBron joined a 47 win team and made it into a title contender as the clear-cut best player. KD joined a 73 win team. The precedent doesn't even apply to this situation.

Yes, it does. Regardless of what the circumstances were when LeBron joined the Heat compared to KD joining the Warriors, the voters aren't opposed to awarding the MVP to someone who teams up with other elite players.

[Lupe]

Yes, it does. Regardless of what the circumstances were when LeBron joined the Heat compared to KD joining the Warriors, the voters aren't opposed to awarding the MVP to someone who teams up with other elite players.

But LeBron is what elevated that team to championship level. The Warriors were already a championship level team before KD arrived. It's not the same. It's like if LeBron joined Boston not Miami.

[A.I]

But LeBron is what elevated that team to championship level. The Warriors were already a championship level team before KD arrived. It's not the same. It's like if LeBron joined Boston not Miami.

He is right, it really doesn't matter. If the Warriors are winning and KD is leading that team, I don't see why he can't win MVP.

[Sinbad]

He is right, it really doesn't matter. If the Warriors are winning and KD is leading that team, I don't see why he can't win MVP.

If the Warriors finish with the best record in the league, or the projected high 50's low 60's win total, I suspect either KD or Curry will win it, or at least be runner-up. The narratives are built-in, and both have the national profile and body of work that voters generally favour. I don't understand those who believe DeRozan should be a front-runner for the award after just 9 games. That's not how this process works.

[Lupe]

If the Warriors finish with the best record in the league, or the projected high 50's low 60's win total, I suspect either KD or Curry will win it, or at least be runner-up. The narratives are built-in, and both have the national profile and body of work that voters generally favour. I don't understand those who believe DeRozan should be a front-runner for the award after just 9 games. That's not how this process works.

Wait a second we're not discussing who we think the media will give the award, we're discussing who we think deserves it based on performances so far this season. And as far as I'm concerned DeRozan leading the league in scoring, while leading his team to one of the best records is more MVP worthy than the 2nd and 3rd best players in the league teaming up on a team that already won 73 games to have a great record.

Not sure what the relevance of national profile is in terms of deserving the award, what profile did Steve Nash have before he won it or even Derrick Rose?

If we're just going based off past record of greatness then give it to LeBron right now and move on.

[A.I]

If the Warriors finish with the best record in the league, or the projected high 50's low 60's win total, I suspect either KD or Curry will win it, or at least be runner-up. The narratives are built-in, and both have the national profile and body of work that voters generally favour. I don't understand those who believe DeRozan should be a front-runner for the award after just 9 games. That's not how this process works.

Derozan is definitely a front runner right behind Harden and Westbrook through 9 games, but we don't know if he'll stay there.

[Nilanka]

My question is this: If we're not discussing who we think is most likely to win the award by season's end, is there any point in discussing MVP candidates so early? Remember, even Andrea Bargnani can look like a passable NBA player for 13 games

[DanH]

I remember there being a video interview from DeMar and Lowry, can't recall if it was from Open Gym or a post game scrum or what, where Lowry teases DeRozan about his efficiency, and DeMar bragged that unlike Lowry he could get his shot off at any time against anyone. At the time, I certainly sided with Lowry - what's the point of getting your shot off if it doesn't go in?

What we're seeing so far this year is what happens when a guy has an elite ability to get a shot off, and the shots go in. Funnily enough, Lowry has built his efficiency on where he takes his shots - at the rim and from 3, with only a few midrange jumpers sprinkled in when necessary. DeRozan has flipped that script - he's been incredibly efficient so far in spite of where he takes his shots (although he does do well to get into the paint as well). The distinction there is critical - Lowry can't get a layup or 3 whenever he likes (close on the threes he takes coming off screens or in transition though). DeRozan can get a midrange jumper basically any time he has the ball. Being able to convert those looks at a high clip like he's been doing is proving the value of being able to get a shot off whenever you want, and is turning him into the closest thing to unstoppable offensively. Every defensive scheme in the league begs players to take those shots - contested long two's, and DeRozan hitting them means every defensive scheme in the league is broken against the Raps.

[Joey]

I remember there being a video interview from DeMar and Lowry, can't recall if it was from Open Gym or a post game scrum or what, where Lowry teases DeRozan about his efficiency, and DeMar bragged that unlike Lowry he could get his shot off at any time against anyone. At the time, I certainly sided with Lowry - what's the point of getting your shot off if it doesn't go in?

What we're seeing so far this year is what happens when a guy has an elite ability to get a shot off, and the shots go in. Funnily enough, Lowry has built his efficiency on where he takes his shots - at the rim and from 3, with only a few midrange jumpers sprinkled in when necessary. DeRozan has flipped that script - he's been incredibly efficient so far in spite of where he takes his shots (although he does do well to get into the paint as well). The distinction there is critical - Lowry can't get a layup or 3 whenever he likes (close on the threes he takes coming off screens or in transition though). DeRozan can get a midrange jumper basically any time he has the ball. Being able to convert those looks at a high clip like he's been doing is proving the value of being able to get a shot off whenever you want, and is turning him into the closest thing to unstoppable offensively. Every defensive scheme in the league begs players to take those shots - contested long two's, and DeRozan hitting them means every defensive scheme in the league is broken against the Raps.

Great article on SI.com about Demars current run talks about just that...
http://www.si.com/nba/2016/11/15/dem...coring-ranking

Good isolation play can be helpful as the situation calls for it. Transcendent isolation play, on the other hand, is almost impossible to fully scheme away.

Also found this bit interesting:

...Derozan is shooting 58.6% on true mid-range shots and 52.2% on long twos. Those are figures that Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade, even at their absolute peak, never came close to touching. Richard Hamilton made an entire career out of mid-range shooting and couldn't sniff it. Dirk Nowitzki is seven feet tall and spent his lifetime honing an unblockable shot. Even then, he only once shot better on long twos than DeRozan is currently. DeRozan himself, a symbol of incremental improvement, had never previously come within 10 percentage points of his current accuracy from either range. The margin between that established precedent and sensational present doesn't just put DeRozan in a different world. It puts him on an entirely different plane of existence.

[S.R.]

Not sure where your anger towards the rankings is coming from. Let's be honest; the evaluators that compile these lists, analysts, and basketball media are waiting for the other shoe to drop with DeMar. What he's doing is remarkable, but it isn't sustainable. Compare his hot start to the players ranked ahead of him. They have all won either MVP, DPOY or a Scoring Title, had multiple All-Star selections, or achieved multiple All-NBA Team selections. They all have a body of work that they can fall back on. He, beyond 2 all-star selections, does not.

I agree, the only comment I'd add is that Raptors fans know maybe the main thing DeMar has done is just get better every single year. Last year was a career year and this year he's better. From that perspective his excellence is sustainable, we all know this has to drop off a bit, which is fine. 25 ppg at above average efficiency would be plenty awesome over a full season.

The one thing DeMar is still lacking is just the wow factor in his play making. ESPN will always love the guys able to make jaw dropping, highlight-worthy individual athletic plays. Just ask Tim Duncan and the Spurs.

The positive for Raptors fans is that the lack of recognition motivates DeMar. Keep it coming.

[Nilanka]

Also found this bit interesting:

Which is why it seems unsustainable. DeRozan's doing things that's never been done in the history of the sport.

I'm not complaining. I'll take every win, but there's this nagging feeling that DeRozan's dominance won't last. The law of averages will see to it.

[Lupe]

I agree, the only comment I'd add is that Raptors fans know maybe the main thing DeMar has done is just get better every single year. Last year was a career year and this year he's better. From that perspective his excellence is sustainable, we all know this has to drop off a bit, which is fine. 25 ppg at above average efficiency would be plenty awesome over a full season.

The one thing DeMar is still lacking is just the wow factor in his play making. ESPN will always love the guys able to make jaw dropping, highlight-worthy individual athletic plays. Just ask Tim Duncan and the Spurs.

The positive for Raptors fans is that the lack of recognition motivates DeMar. Keep it coming.

Yeah this is going to be an issue for him in terms of marketability along with the fact that US Media likes to pretend the Raptors don't exist.

DeRozan himself compared his game to Alex English recently, just gets to his spots and gets his points nothing super flashy about it. Although some of those turnaround fadeaways are amazing to watch.