Everything Derozan

[imanshumpert]

OldSKoolCool: reread this post carefully. It is a necessary fact that LA generates more of his points out of pick and rolls than DD.

Lol actually by quoting my post you left out the part that explains that (because it was in quotes).

[OldSkoolCool]

Dude cmon how is this still even a discussion. He's number 6 in number of pick and rolls operated in the entire league. I'm not even sure how were still having this discussion. The evidence has been presented, and LA is a player who generates a huge percentage of his plays out of picks.

You can make other arguments that DD isn't as effective. But this point is moot.

OldSKoolCool: reread this post carefully. It is a necessary fact that LA generates more of his points out of pick and rolls than DD.

LOL

Let me tell you one more time. LA does not get the majority of his points out of the pick and roll (its about 40%). HE GETS THE MOST OF HIS POINTS OFF OF ISO/POST PLAY. If you watched his game AND looked at the numbers they will tell you the same.

You are saying he does the most PnR's in the league, and you're right...but I'm saying he still gets the majority of his offense from post/iso play. This is the third time I'm am telling you. I'm done.

[stooley]

LOL

Let me tell you one more time. LA does not get the majority of his points out of the pick and roll (its about 40%). HE GETS THE MOST OF HIS POINTS OFF OF ISO/POST PLAY. If you watched his game AND looked at the numbers they will tell you the same.

You are saying he does the most PnR's in the league, and you're right...but I'm saying he still gets the majority of his offense from post/iso play. This is the third time I'm am telling you. I'm done.

I was arguing against your claim that Demar Derozan's game doesn't stretch the court as well as Aldridge's game, which you supported by citing Demar's overuse of picks.




All I'm saying is:

Lamarcus Aldridge scores just as many or more of his point out of picks as Demar Derozan.

That's all I'm saying, and I think that the evidence points to that. It's about relative use of a certain play. (also, I do feel like DD isos a decent amount, can it really be that much less than Aldridge?).





The reason why I think LA's game fits so well in Portland is because they're such a well balanced team that can score from anywhere on the court.

Portland has 3 point specialists, a mid-range specialist, a solid paint presence and a point guard that knows how to break down the defense.

Personally, I think that the mid range game is a crucial and necessary part of any team, and I would love to have Demar on a contending team.

I think we have a back court that is championship material. Lowry's a great PG who can (could?) shoot the three, Ross is an athletic 3 and D man who's learning to put the ball on the floor, and DD's learned to fill the empty spaces in the half court.

I think it may be a problem to have our mid range man play as a SG, since to get optimal spacing, he'll either have to increase his 3pt% to >35 or we need a 4 who can shoot the three (Patterson? Love?).

Finally, we need a low post presence/rim protector. Ideally, Jonas will become one.

[JawsGT]

If anything, Demar should replace some of his long 2's with drives to the basket, not 3 pointers, especially from the wings or top of the arc. How often does Demar get open 3pt shots from the wings or top of the arc? Not many, and if he was to take more they would come predominantly off the dribble, which I'm not a fan of. Demar, I think, is better at 3pt's via the catch and shoot, as opposed to off the dribble, which is probably why he shoots better from the corners which is usually a catch and shoot situation (distance is a factor too obviously).

I don't have any stats to support this view, but really, Demar should be consistently more aggressive and attempt to substitute some of those long 2's with points in the paint. And points in the paint is more of a concern for this team than 3pt shooting. Get the 3pts the traditional way Demar, and work on your 3pt shooting in the offseason!

[stooley]

If anything, Demar should replace some of his long 2's with drives to the basket, not 3 pointers, especially from the wings or top of the arc. How often does Demar get open 3pt shots from the wings or top of the arc? Not many, and if he was to take more they would come predominantly off the dribble, which I'm not a fan of. Demar, I think, is better at 3pt's via the catch and shoot, as opposed to off the dribble, which is probably why he shoots better from the corners which is usually a catch and shoot situation (distance is a factor too obviously).

I don't have any stats to support this view, but really, Demar should be consistently more aggressive and attempt to substitute some of those long 2's with points in the paint. And points in the paint is more of a concern for this team than 3pt shooting. Get the 3pts the traditional way Demar, and work on your 3pt shooting in the offseason!

I definitely agree with this.

He needs to work on his footwork and handles before he'll be able to consistently get to the basket though. He's athletic enough.

[Puffer]

I definitely agree with this.

He needs to work on his footwork and handles before he'll be able to consistently get to the basket though. He's athletic enough.

I would say both have improved significantly from last season to this. I believe we can expect to see further improvement.

[imanshumpert]

If anything, Demar should replace some of his long 2's with drives to the basket, not 3 pointers, especially from the wings or top of the arc. How often does Demar get open 3pt shots from the wings or top of the arc? Not many, and if he was to take more they would come predominantly off the dribble, which I'm not a fan of. Demar, I think, is better at 3pt's via the catch and shoot, as opposed to off the dribble, which is probably why he shoots better from the corners which is usually a catch and shoot situation (distance is a factor too obviously).

I don't have any stats to support this view, but really, Demar should be consistently more aggressive and attempt to substitute some of those long 2's with points in the paint. And points in the paint is more of a concern for this team than 3pt shooting. Get the 3pts the traditional way Demar, and work on your 3pt shooting in the offseason!

Now THIS makes sense.

Although sometimes the paint is packed when he takes those long-2s, but there are definitely sometimes where he could drive instead of hoisting one.

[Axel]

So should Dwyane Wade, but he doesn't either. Some players just never extend their range past that long-two. Not saying DeRozan won't, but right now it's not there so he shouldn't be shooting many of those shots.

Funny that you mention Wade; who takes the largest quantity of his shots at the rim (38% of all his 2 point shots are at the rim). Conversely, Demar is 43% of all his 2 point shots from mid-range and only 18% at the rim. Demar takes more mid-range jumpers than shots at the rim and 3 pointers combined.

Factor in the amount of pull-up jumpers vs catch and shoot:
Demar averages 5.1 catch and shoot FGA per game, shooting 43.9% overall and 34.6% from 3.
Demar averages 7.6 pull-up FGA per game. shooting 35.4% overall and 13.8% from 3.

Point is, Demar is executing a very inefficient game at a high level, but if he could move his shots to more efficient areas, even if he loses some of his execution (FG%), it would be more productive as those areas are worth more points (at the rim increases FTA and-1 opportunities)

[Joey]

Funny that you mention Wade; who takes the largest quantity of his shots at the rim (38% of all his 2 point shots are at the rim). Conversely, Demar is 43% of all his 2 point shots from mid-range and only 18% at the rim. Demar takes more mid-range jumpers than shots at the rim and 3 pointers combined.

Factor in the amount of pull-up jumpers vs catch and shoot:
Demar averages 5.1 catch and shoot FGA per game, shooting 43.9% overall and 34.6% from 3.
Demar averages 7.6 pull-up FGA per game. shooting 35.4% overall and 13.8% from 3.

Point is, Demar is executing a very inefficient game at a high level, but if he could move his shots to more efficient areas, even if he loses some of his execution (FG%), it would be more productive as those areas are worth more points (at the rim increases FTA and-1 opportunities)

Except you want to know who's attempted more FT's than Demar?
KD, Dwight, Cousins, Harden, Love, Griffin, Lebron James.
Thats it.

Wanna know who has more FTM's than Demar?
Durant, Harden, Love and Cousins.
That's it.

So I'm not sure you can really critiicize him for not getting to the rim, seeing as he's in some pretty Elite company there.

Also Paul George and Demar are now tied for FG%.

Another interesting point, Harden is only shooting 33.7% from 3 this year...only 3.6% above Demar. But attempting 6.3 per game.

So in conclusion, if people would be happy with Harden or George, they should be happy with Demar. I'd rather Demar NOT shoot more 3's, and just stick to refining his bread-and-butter. Mid-range and FTAs.

[thead]

I think there is probably an optimal amount of driving...but to those saying drive more drive more...there is a wear and tear element you aren't considering. Every time you drive into the teeth of the defense you are getting whacked by 240 - 300 lb men. I don't know what the ideal number of FTs are...but I feel like 6 - 8 is enough to keep a defense honest. If you haven't received a hard foul playing before please don't harp on the efficiency of drives alone.

[Axel]

Except you want to know who's attempted more FT's than Demar?
KD, Dwight, Cousins, Harden, Love, Griffin, Lebron James.
Thats it.

Wanna know who has more FTM's than Demar?
Durant, Harden, Love and Cousins.
That's it.

So I'm not sure you can really critiicize him for not getting to the rim, seeing as he's in some pretty Elite company there.


Another interesting point, Harden is only shooting 33.7% from 3 this year...only 3.6% above Demar. But attempting 6.3 per game.

I'd rather Demar NOT shoot more 3's, and just stick to refining his bread-and-butter. Mid-range and FTAs.

You can absolutely criticism him for not getting to the rim, only 18% of his 2 point shots come from at the rim, while 43% fall in the inefficient mid-range area.

You cannot criticism him for getting Free Throws (which is what your post really illustrates). That part of his game is elite, DESPITE his reliance on mid-range jumpers.

Point is, if he attempted more shots from efficient areas, he'd be producing at a higher level. Right now he's putting great energy into being great at a low output area.

[Joey]

You can absolutely criticism him for not getting to the rim, only 18% of his 2 point shots come from at the rim, while 43% fall in the inefficient mid-range area.

You cannot criticism him for getting Free Throws (which is what your post really illustrates). That part of his game is elite, DESPITE his reliance on mid-range jumpers.

Point is, if he attempted more shots from efficient areas, he'd be producing at a higher level. Right now he's putting great energy into being great at a low output area.

It doesn't count as a FGA if you get fouled ... so that 18% is attempts he doesn't get fouled on.
Add in the ones where he does, which again is pretty elite, and that percentage likely climbs.

How do you figure that Top-7 FTA and Top-5 in FTM is "putting great energy into being great at a low output area"?

[Axel]

I think there is probably an optimal amount of driving...but to those saying drive more drive more...there is a wear and tear element you aren't considering. Every time you drive into the teeth of the defense you are getting whacked by 240 - 300 lb men. I don't know what the ideal number of FTs are...but I feel like 6 - 8 is enough to keep a defense honest. If you haven't received a hard foul playing before please don't harp on the efficiency of drives alone.

So my opinion is more valid because I've been smacked in the face while driving? That's kind of a stupid mentality to take. Lots of players drive, so it's too much for Demar but for others?

Examples of player % of 2PA at the rim (this season data only)
Manu 48.7%
John Wall 34.7%
Eric Gordon 44.9%
Tony Parker 37.8%
Monta Ellis 37.7&
MCW 45.9%
Jeff Teague 38.7%
Damian Lillard 49.2%
Lance Stephenson 53.8%
Demar 18%

A good mix of young and old, all-stars and non. 18% looks quite bad in that company.

[Joey]

So my opinion is more valid because I've been smacked in the face while driving? That's kind of a stupid mentality to take. Lots of players drive, so it's too much for Demar but for others?

Examples of player % of 2PA at the rim (this season data only)
Manu 48.7%
John Wall 34.7%
Eric Gordon 44.9%
Tony Parker 37.8%
Monta Ellis 37.7&
MCW 45.9%
Jeff Teague 38.7%
Damian Lillard 49.2%
Lance Stephenson 53.8%
Demar 18%

A good mix of young and old, all-stars and non. 18% looks quite bad in that company.

But you once again ignore the fact that Demar gets fouls called more than any of those listed above, factoring into his low %.

Not to mention, Demar takes more FGs than any of them.
For Manu, who takes 9 shots a game, 50% of that is 4.5.
Where-as 20% of Demars shots work out to 3.6. So its not THAT huge of a gap, still.

[stooley]

But you once again ignore the fact that Demar gets fouls called more than any of those listed above, factoring into his low %.

This year, Lance Stephenson is taking 11.3 FGA per game. If 53.8 percent of those are at the rim, then he's taking 6.1 FGA at the rim. He averages 2.7 FTA per game. Let's assume that equates to 1 FGA at the rim which gets waived off and called a foul.

So Stephenson's loosely foul adjusted FGA at the rim are 7.1 per game, or 57.7% of his loosely foul adjusted FGA.

Demar Derozan averages 18.3 FGA per game, so he's averaging 3.24 shots at the rim. Demar is averaging 7.5 FTA per game. So lets be very generous here and assume those all come at the rim, without any and ones.

This means Demar is losing 3.75 FGA at the rim due to fouls. So his loosely foul adjusted FGA% at the rim is 31.8%, which is still short of that entire list in the previous post.