Everything Derozan

[Joey]

Ultimately, people just need to say they don't like his game, and be done with it.
Because, thats his game.

[Axel]

It doesn't count as a FGA if you get fouled ... so that 18% is attempts he doesn't get fouled on.
Add in the ones where he does, which again is pretty elite, and that percentage likely climbs.

How do you figure that Top-7 FTA and Top-5 in FTM is "putting great energy into being great at a low output area"?

True, shots fouled would not register a miss as an attempt, but there is no way to capture that. I don't believe 100% of Demar's FTA are the direct result of shots at the rim. So while he would gain %, I don't think it fundamentally changes anything.

To the bold, Demar has taken 378 shots (not including fouls) in mid-range, hitting 156 of them for 41.3%

His shooting % at the rim is 68.8% and his 3P% is 30.1% overall (38% from corner 3s).

So if Demar had reduced his mid-range attempts by, let's say 40%, he'd only be taking 151 less mid-range shots (@ 41.3%). Spread those to shots at the rim and 3PA and he becomes more efficient and more prolific. Right now, he is prolific but not efficient.


A few areas of concern for the playoffs: Demar's shooting % is the lowest when there is less than 3 mins left in the Q (40.9% vs 46.9% and 42.7% in 3-6 mins and 6+ mins). Demar's shooting % is the lowest when the game is closest (42.6% less than 5 point margin vs 44.1% and 44.5% in 6-10 point margins and 10+ point margins). He will be the focus of the defence in the playoffs on a lot of plays, he will need to rise to meet that challenge.

[stooley]

Ultimately, people just need to say they don't like his game, and be done with it.
Because, thats his game.

His game gets better every year though, so I'm hoping to see even more improvements.

Also, I like to think of myself as being more pro-mid range than the majority of people seem to be.

[JawsGT]

I'll add another couple of points. As was shown, Demar doesn't get or take a lot of shots near the rim, but he does have an elite level of FT shooting. Thus, one can conclude that Demar draws a lot of fouls on his jump shots, which my eye test supports, but of course I do not have stats to support that. But if you've watched a lot of Raps games this season, I think any would agree with that statement. And that's great to be able to consistently draw fouls off of jump shots, as few players do this regularly. So, the argument that he should get into the paint more often still holds water (if, of course, my eye test is correct).

Furthermore, it should be noted that Demar is really still in a developmental stage, especially with regards to his shooting. A jump shot was a skill he was lacking when he came into the league and he really has only had the last couple of seasons to really work on it in game, especially in situations that a #1 or #2 option would be faced with regularly. Thus, is it possible that his preference for outside shooting is by design? Is it possible that Demar is trying to fine-tune his outside shooting ability, and that he has the support of the team and organization so that they can come to rely on that ability as he improves? I'm not really sure about this, but a lot of great SG's have made a living off the mid-range game, and maybe Demar is just trying to 'perfect' his ability to take and make those shots. You can practice them all you want in the off-season, but you really won't know what you got until you go through the motions game in and game out. Remember, we ain't winning no championship this season, so development is still a big part of the equation, and that certainly includes Demar as well. And, of course, having a guy on the floor that can dominate in the mid-range is a huge weapon for any team, and is even more important in the playoffs, especially against the top defences. This team needs Demar, or someone else, to be able to knock down that shot, so I really don't have too much issue with him taking a lot of them. Nonetheless, I would still like to see him be more aggressive and try and get to the hoop more often.

[Axel]

Ultimately, people just need to say they don't like his game, and be done with it.
Because, thats his game.

His game gets better every year though, so I'm hoping to see even more improvements.

Also, I like to think of myself as being more pro-mid range than the majority of people seem to be.

It is his game, 2 questions: #1 - why? Is it all he can do or is it just what he has done historically? #2 - can he do more? Can he transfer the skills to a "better decision" and still be prolific? Based on what we've seen, he should be able to I think.

[mcHAPPY]

Ultimately, people just need to say they don't like his game, and be done with it.
Because, thats his game.

Yup.

I have always had a great respect for his work ethic and the character that is portrayed through media (lets be real: none of us know these stars.... look at Jordan - portrayed as a saint and nothing further from the truth in reality but I digress).

However I really don't like his game.

With that said my opinions have certainly changed on him. I don't consider him to be one dimensional anymore. I'm not going to say he can't get better anymore because I truly think he is an exception to all the rules on player development. He is unique in his commitment to his craft and even though I don't think his natural talent is elite, his work ethic is - and for the majority of players the work ethic is more important.

[Joey]

A few areas of concern for the playoffs: Demar's shooting % is the lowest when there is less than 3 mins left in the Q (40.9% vs 46.9% and 42.7% in 3-6 mins and 6+ mins). Demar's shooting % is the lowest when the game is closest (42.6% less than 5 point margin vs 44.1% and 44.5% in 6-10 point margins and 10+ point margins). He will be the focus of the defence in the playoffs on a lot of plays, he will need to rise to meet that challenge.

Found this to be relevant:

If nobody's taking the midrange jumper on a consistent basis, the success rate automatically drops. Things change, however, in the postseason. Run-and-gun teams get slowed to a crawl. There's a premium on the efficiency of a halfcourt set. There has yet to be an NBA champion built largely around three-point shooting, and the decline of low-post, back-to-the-basket scoring has been a glaring issue for several years.

So the memory rewinds to the manner in which titles were won in the three-point era. Such names as James Worthy, Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, Richard Hamilton, Tim Duncan and Tony Parker come to mind, not to mention Michael Jordan, the vintage Kobe Bryant or Dwyane Wade, who did serious damage from midrange distance.

Simply put, these "worthless" shots are absolute difference-makers when the stakes are highest. So practice that shot, all you rotation mainstays, and do so relentlessly. Maybe it's not a big part of your arsenal, but you're going to need it when it counts.
Source

So really, both angles could be taken.

[stooley]

Found this to be relevant:


So really, both angles could be taken.

Can we say Houston and GSW may be test cases?

[Axel]

Found this to be relevant:


So really, both angles could be taken.

Fair point.

The Raps already play at a slow pace (currently 24th), so we won't have to adjust to that aspect of playoff games. Hope our execution is up to the task.

[Axel]

How do you figure that Top-7 FTA and Top-5 in FTM is "putting great energy into being great at a low output area"?

Another, a likely simpler way to answer this would be: In the top 25 scorers (PPG), Demar ranks 21st in FG%. So yes, he scores prolifically but not efficiently. If he could increase his efficiency, his PPG would rise and he could be top 3 scorer in PPG.

[Axel]

My final thought on this (for now, muahaha); I was very much in the Demar "hater" camp, but largely because I always he should be better with what he had (for talent, athleticism, work ethic, etc) and was largely disappointed in the results. Part of that ties with my own views on the game of basketball being more than just putting the ball into the hoop (defence, rebounding, etc).

Now, I really believe that Demar is the best example of a talent that needed the right coaching, and that starts right down at the grass roots level. With Demar's natural gifts and his work ethic, if he had been under the development of a great coach or great coaching system, he would really be an amazing player.

I think that may be one of the reasons why Canadian raised players are becoming so prominent, I truly believe that we are getting the right coaching at a younger age, while many US players grew up emulating the ISO role because they could. In Canada, we were never good enough to rely on ISO, so we had to be better team players. I think that is paying off for Canada now (and the US system is heading back in that direction after how successful Spain and Argentina have been on a world stage in the pre-Coach K USA national team system).

[thead]

my point was that driving a lot hurts and should be factored into discussions on efficiency is dumb? Essentially I'm saying this isn't a video game driving the lane and free throws don't occur in a vacuum. I'm saying there is likely an ideal amount of driving that keeps the defense honest and yet doesn't hurt like hell ( I don't have that stat) When dealing with advanced stats, you have to consider that it's a person carrying it out. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion if you haven't been whacked a few times by an enormous athlete...only that you lack relevant information not included in the analytics. Maybe this is a dumb point, but I don't think it is.

[Mediumcore]

His game gets better every year though, so I'm hoping to see even more improvements.

Also, I like to think of myself as being more pro-mid range than the majority of people seem to be.

I think that is the key point to this conversation. Sure, if he improves his 3 point shooting then hell yeah take that step or two back and make that more productive bucket, but right now that's not in his arsenal. So you can wish he takes 3 pointers until the cows come home, but it's ultimately less efficient than him taking a long 2 which he currently does make at a good rate.

[stooley]

my point was that driving a lot hurts and should be factored into discussions on efficiency is dumb? Essentially I'm saying this isn't a video game driving the lane and free throws don't occur in a vacuum. I'm saying there is likely an ideal amount of driving that keeps the defense honest and yet doesn't hurt like hell ( I don't have that stat) When dealing with advanced stats, you have to consider that it's a person carrying it out. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion if you haven't been whacked a few times by an enormous athlete...only that you lack relevant information not included in the analytics. Maybe this is a dumb point, but I don't think it is.

It's an excellent point. The only flaw is using it justify DD driving far less than most of his contemporaries.

If those guys can do it a little more, shouldn't Demar be able to?

[OldSkoolCool]

Now, I really believe that Demar is the best example of a talent that needed the right coaching, and that starts right down at the grass roots level. With Demar's natural gifts and his work ethic, if he had been under the development of a great coach or great coaching system, he would really be an amazing player.

I think that may be one of the reasons why Canadian raised players are becoming so prominent, I truly believe that we are getting the right coaching at a younger age, while many US players grew up emulating the ISO role because they could. In Canada, we were never good enough to rely on ISO, so we had to be better team players. I think that is paying off for Canada now (and the US system is heading back in that direction after how successful Spain and Argentina have been on a world stage in the pre-Coach K USA national team system).

I wonder if this has to do with the availability of court space in Canada. We have a much smaller 'street ball' scene due to outdoor courts only being available in the summers. Most of the court time kids get are in gyms with coordinated ball...even in men's league pick-up ball there is a little more structure than what I have seen from street ball in the warmer southern states. This could be in part why we don't have the ISO players you are talking about.

Entirely speculation of course