Everything Derozan

[stooley]

It will come Dan, paience buddy. He's 24.....and rumours, already back in the gym training. You know who else did that?

#23


I like DD, and my feeling is that you can teach shot selection, and yu can improve a teams spacing and cohesion....but you can't teach aggression, you can't teach effort, and you can't teach a guy to draw fouls....these are intangibles and he has them all.

So while I would never refute what you guys say about his poor shot selection, his JV look offs etc..... I see um too, I just can't bring myself to be anything but optimistic about him. Lats year (the year before) I was skeptical....hell 3 years ago I called him Harold Miner when he seemed more interested in slam dunk contests than ball (my bad). I'm a tough sell, and this kid is selling me now.

We got a good one there.

I completely agree.

I love you man, the Lionel Hollins of these boards.

You should never have been fired.

[Superjudge]

Dan, give JJ more credit, the knock on him has always, ALWAYS been motivation. Nobody ever suggested he wasn't a top five talent if motivated. You saw that in these playoffs.....when he is focused and dialed in to compete, he is an absolute nightmare.

You're right, DD didn't shut him down, but in fairness..... damn, Joe Johnson is huge, talented, and just over all awesome when he wants to be.

[Superjudge]

oh...and as for the heat killing Brooklyn. Thats where talent helps...... they are just elite.

[imanshumpert]

DeRozan just needs to improve his IQ on both sides of the ball, his handling, and if possible his 3pt shooting ability. All of those things are areas a player tends to improve when they start getting towards their prime (except ball handling), so I'm not really too concerned.

I think in his prime, DeRozan is going to be an efficient 20-5-5 guy and a plus defender. His career trajectory so far points towards something like that happening down the line.

[Superjudge]

....and a good father.

haha

[DanH]

It will come Dan, paience buddy. He's 24.....and rumours, already back in the gym training. You know who else did that?

#23


I like DD, and my feeling is that you can teach shot selection, and yu can improve a teams spacing and cohesion....but you can't teach aggression, you can't teach effort, and you can't teach a guy to draw fouls....these are intangibles and he has them all.

So while I would never refute what you guys say about his poor shot selection, his JV look offs etc..... I see um too, I just can't bring myself to be anything but optimistic about him. Lats year (the year before) I was skeptical....hell 3 years ago I called him Harold Miner when he seemed more interested in slam dunk contests than ball (my bad). I'm a tough sell, and this kid is selling me now.

We got a good one there.

I pray you are right, because as much as I personally want to see it, I very much doubt MU trades DeMar. Believe you me, I am rooting for him as much as the next Raptors fan.

I'd be overjoyed if DD proved he had a high basketball IQ, learned when to pass quickly and when to force the issue, when to drive and specifically when NOT to shoot, used his athleticism on the boards and managed to play decent defense consistently. Freaking pumped. And would be happy to keep him on long term even when he wants a pay raise.

But my hopes for DD and my expectations are very different. You can be the hardest worker in the world, but if you don't have the instincts to make the right play, or put the work in on BOTH ends, you aren't going to get anywhere near good ol' number 23. I don't see it all coming together for him. Would love to be wrong, and often am, but that doesn't change what I expect.

And I mean, when it comes down to it, whether I'm patient and optimistic or judgmental and exploring ways to trade him makes no difference to the team in the least. So I'm perfectly happy to suffer in my own unique way.

[DanH]

DeRozan just needs to improve his IQ on both sides of the ball, his handling, and if possible his 3pt shooting ability. All of those things are areas a player tends to improve when they start getting towards their prime (except ball handling), so I'm not really too concerned.

I think in his prime, DeRozan is going to be an efficient 20-5-5 guy and a plus defender. His career trajectory so far points towards something like that happening down the line.

I completely agree. His IQ on both sides (and effort on D quite often) is the main issue I have with him. The issue there is, sometimes there's just no improving that IQ. At this level, after so much basketball, there's a limit to how much a player can improve in that area. Sure, as guys gain experience they improve, but I've seen no sign of this on the defensive end. He still loses his guy around screens, or sagging into the paint for no reason, as much as he did in his rookie year. His improvement offensively in terms of IQ (minimal, with all the crappy jumpers he still takes, but at least he's improved in looking to pass) is a positive sign, but hardly evidence of impending greatness.

If you are right and DD has plus-defender in his future (any additional efficiency is a bonus - if he can defend, his current offensive game is more than sufficient), I have no problem keeping him on. I just don't personally see it.

[imanshumpert]

I completely agree. His IQ on both sides (and effort on D quite often) is the main issue I have with him. The issue there is, sometimes there's just no improving that IQ. At this level, after so much basketball, there's a limit to how much a player can improve in that area. Sure, as guys gain experience they improve, but I've seen no sign of this on the defensive end. He still loses his guy around screens, or sagging into the paint for no reason, as much as he did in his rookie year. His improvement offensively in terms of IQ (minimal, with all the crappy jumpers he still takes, but at least he's improved in looking to pass) is a positive sign, but hardly evidence of impending greatness.

If you are right and DD has plus-defender in his future (any additional efficiency is a bonus - if he can defend, his current offensive game is more than sufficient), I have no problem keeping him on. I just don't personally see it.

That's nice.

[imanshumpert]

Statistically this season, DD was almost on par with VC's 7 year body of work in Toronto.

Carter (7 years in T.Dot):
23.4 points
3.9 assists
5.2 rebounds
2.3 turnovers
21.8 PER
52.6 TS%
108 oRTG
105 dRTG
.151 WS/48

DeRozan (2013-14 Season):
22.7 points
4.0 assists
4.3 rebounds
2.2 turnovers
18.4 PER
53.2 TS%
110 oRTG
107 dRTG
.141 WS/48

Obviously Carter was a better defensive player, and put up those numbers in Toronto for 7 seasons, whereas DD has only done it for 1 (but remember Carter entered the league at 22). It's still pretty crazy how similar those numbers are. Despite Vince being a better 3 point shooter, he wasn't more efficient than DeMar because he wasn't as good at drawing contact and getting to the line, and he had a similar propensity for shooting long twos (30.8% of FGA from 16-23 feet, 36.2% for DD).

Just thought I'd bring this up, sure some people are going to get annoyed that I'm saying DeMar is as good as Vince (which I'm not, just to clarify).

[mcHAPPY]

[DanH]

Statistically this season, DD was almost on par with VC's 7 year body of work in Toronto.

Carter (7 years in T.Dot):
23.4 points
3.9 assists
5.2 rebounds
2.3 turnovers
21.8 PER
52.6 TS%
108 oRTG
105 dRTG
.151 WS/48

DeRozan (2013-14 Season):
22.7 points
4.0 assists
4.3 rebounds
2.2 turnovers
18.4 PER
53.2 TS%
110 oRTG
107 dRTG
.141 WS/48

Obviously Carter was a better defensive player, and put up those numbers in Toronto for 7 seasons, whereas DD has only done it for 1 (but remember Carter entered the league at 22). It's still pretty crazy how similar those numbers are. Despite Vince being a better 3 point shooter, he wasn't more efficient than DeMar because he wasn't as good at drawing contact and getting to the line, and he had a similar propensity for shooting long twos (30.8% of FGA from 16-23 feet, 36.2% for DD).

Just thought I'd bring this up, sure some people are going to get annoyed that I'm saying DeMar is as good as Vince (which I'm not, just to clarify).

Just to be clear, you are including Vince's rookie year (where he was fairly similar to DD this year), as well as his final 4 years here, when he was injured over and over, never really hit his peak, and was a shell of his former self by the time he was traded. Vince's good years (2 and 3) here were a stratosphere above DD's season.

[Nilanka]

Vince's good years (2 and 3) here were a stratosphere above DD's season.

Don't even need numbers to prove it. Carter, at his best, was a top-5 player in the league.

[Joey]

Lets try and remain respectful adults throughout all of this please.

[imanshumpert]

Just to be clear, you are including Vince's rookie year (where he was fairly similar to DD this year), as well as his final 4 years here, when he was injured over and over, never really hit his peak, and was a shell of his former self by the time he was traded. Vince's good years (2 and 3) here were a stratosphere above DD's season.

I'm aware of that. Like I said i'm not saying DeMar is as good as Vince. Vince at his peak was at a level that DeMar is not really close to.

[white men can't jump]

I'm aware of that. Like I said i'm not saying DeMar is as good as Vince. Vince at his peak was at a level that DeMar is not really close to.

I really don't understand what the point of your comparison was though.