white men can't jump wrote:
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chico wrote: View PostI wish you did have the numbers, as well as those of every other high usage wing in the league that drives to the hoop and gets remotely close to the foul calls he draws. I think this "dribbles off his leg/foot" rhetoric is way overplayed here. Even the best do it.
Even the best do it, but DeMar was doing it a lot. And most of the time it wasn't going to the rim/attacking, so clearly you didn't really get my meaning. Not talking him driving into the paint and losing it. Many times it was on the perimeter, where he'd come around a screen and simply lose the ball off his own foot/leg with no pressure. Was a fairly regular occurrence. You can't afford so many of those unforced turnovers in that situation. It is definitely not something common around the league, and something the best would do maybe a handful of times at most.
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chico wrote: View PostNot saying it didn't need improvement, but it's overplayed.
I was just bringing it up because all these people talking about his handle getting better, which will help him drive, create space for jumpers, etc....but he was already driving, getting FTs, didn't have trouble getting jumpers off when he wanted them...Obviously it's great if his dribbling helps that, but first and foremost the goal is to eliminate as many unnecessary mistakes as possible.
I have no clue what the hell you mean by overplayed.
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostOverplayed? I mentioned it....and then when's the last time someone brought it up?
I was just bringing it up because all these people talking about his handle getting better, which will help him drive, create space for jumpers, etc....but he was already driving, getting FTs, didn't have trouble getting jumpers off when he wanted them...Obviously it's great if his dribbling helps that, but first and foremost the goal is to eliminate as many unnecessary mistakes as possible.
I have no clue what the hell you mean by overplayed."Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostOverplayed? I mentioned it....and then when's the last time someone brought it up?
I was just bringing it up because all these people talking about his handle getting better, which will help him drive, create space for jumpers, etc....but he was already driving, getting FTs, didn't have trouble getting jumpers off when he wanted them...Obviously it's great if his dribbling helps that, but first and foremost the goal is to eliminate as many unnecessary mistakes as possible.
I have no clue what the hell you mean by overplayed.
"What the hell I mean"? Exactly what the terminology defines. Nothing more/less, and just an opinion, so no need to get angry.
MACK11 wrote: View PostIf I were you I'd save my time and not try to argue with Chico
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chico wrote: View PostNo need to get defensive. When I spoke of overplayed, it wasn't directed personally, but at the general sense that has people jumping all over the perceived improvements right here in this convo. "Last time"? I don't keep track, but you're here often enough to know it's been a frequent convo.
"What the hell I mean"? Exactly what the terminology defines. Nothing more/less, and just an opinion, so no need to get angry.
Thanks for your valuable input. Fortunately, for him, he's not you.
And those unforced TOs by DeMar were up there last year in terms of frustrating aspects of his game...may have been the most frustrating thing. Don't know if you can overplay that given his role as primary scorer on the team. I mean, if he did it 20-30 times last year (and yes, just taking a random number here, but that feels about right), and can cut that down to 5-10, that's a huge improvement, especially since some of those possessions are bound to be at key moments.
For some actually overplayed stories, imo...
-Is JV fat or not?
-Do we badly need a backup C? / Stiemsma as a difference-maker
-Amir or 2Pat starting?
-People wanting to see signs from Bruno this year (despite the fact that he may never play more than 5-10 minutes in any game)
-3rd PG situation, keep Cherry (or other random pickup) or cut him and roll with Lou if need be
-DeMar's handles in general, but mostly in the sense of what has been brought up in the last couple of pages: people getting really excited about him improving from very very limited evidence.
And I myself have partaken in such discussions...and most of them have been fairly persistent all summer, and also most of them fairly pointless and of, at best, minor importance.
So to me, discussing what DeMar, our leading scorer, actually does with the ball in his hands, and how he can tangibly help the team by improving his play in a specific area, is a pretty worthwhile point about something that actually will make a difference on the floor since we know he has a lot of responsibilities.
**Or rather to make my view clearer, discussing what evidence to look for in the season that would be a very good sign is much more worthwhile than discussing whether he's already much improved based on shitty evidence before any real games are played.Last edited by white men can't jump; Fri Sep 26, 2014, 02:36 PM.
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What crawled up your asses today? Obviously it's not for certain than his handles have improved but from what we've seen they look better, and if we can't generate opinions based off of the little content we are given what else can we do? Simply not talk about it? That's boring.You come at the King, you best not miss.
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Mr.Z wrote: View PostWhat crawled up your asses today? Obviously it's not for certain than his handles have improved but from what we've seen they look better, and if we can't generate opinions based off of the little content we are given what else can we do? Simply not talk about it? That's boring.
It's roughly the equivalent of watching Shaq hit 5 free throws in a row in a short clip, and concluding that there's huge reason to be optimistic for his ft shooting in the coming season.
We'll see when a substantial amount of evidence from real games is available. And for my point, what matters most to me is how much it helps him cut down mistakes. Beyond that, I'm not hoping for any huge change in his game due to his offseason work. Sure I expect it to have a bit of an all-around impact for his offensive execution, but yeah, mostly I hope to see the reduction in mistakes.
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostI think the issue is that it's really poor evidence to get excited about.
It's roughly the equivalent of watching Shaq hit 5 free throws in a row in a short clip, and concluding that there's huge reason to be optimistic for his ft shooting in the coming season.
We'll see when a substantial amount of evidence from real games is available. And for my point, what matters most to me is how much it helps him cut down mistakes. Beyond that, I'm not hoping for any huge change in his game due to his offseason work. Sure I expect it to have a bit of an all-around impact for his offensive execution, but yeah, mostly I hope to see the reduction in mistakes.
Same issue at draft time watching the 1-on-none workout videos. Guys are super skilled but in a game things are different - much different.
I'm hopeful DD's time and effort translates in to games.
I also agree his handle was shaky at crucial times and I hope his new moves don't result in more ISO pull up long 2s with 15secs remaining on shot clock.
DD is a sensitive issue for many Raptor fans. I'm learning to leave it alone for now. I think I've settled on a neutral view of his game and can't wait for the season to start.
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostI think the issue is that it's really poor evidence to get excited about.
It's roughly the equivalent of watching Shaq hit 5 free throws in a row in a short clip, and concluding that there's huge reason to be optimistic for his ft shooting in the coming season.
We'll see when a substantial amount of evidence from real games is available. And for my point, what matters most to me is how much it helps him cut down mistakes. Beyond that, I'm not hoping for any huge change in his game due to his offseason work. Sure I expect it to have a bit of an all-around impact for his offensive execution, but yeah, mostly I hope to see the reduction in mistakes.You come at the King, you best not miss.
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Mr.Z wrote: View PostI get that, I just find it a little ridiculous how you guys (you and Iblastoff) feel it's necessary to kill some people's vibes just because of a few comments that went like "Those handles are looking tight!" and "Nice!". For that must you really write four paragraph posts about why we shouldn't get excited at all until the season starts?
As for the "essay", it was not about getting excited, it was actually countering chico's point about overplaying the issues with DeMar's handles.
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