Everything Derozan

[3inthekeon]

double post

[OldSkoolCool]

Re: Re-assessing the DD vs Hayward this season argument that was started earlier this season. The counter argument was small sample size so I said I would revisit after 20 games. DD has now played 29.

So here she goes (basketball-reference.com), bolded indicates the player with the better number.

DeMar

USG%: 27.7
TS%: 0.488
DRB%: 12.5
AST%: 15.3
PER: 15.3
WS/48: 0.063
PPG: 18.0
APG: 3.1
2P%: 0.418
3P%: 0.211
Ftr: 0.447

Hayward

USG%: 25.2
TS%: 0.579
DRB%: 14.2
AST%: 21.1
PER: 20.2
WS/48: 0.146
PPG: 19.3
APG: 4.1
2P%: 0.486
3P%: 0.392
Ftr: 0.415

So I think I have a good balance of stats there, but if there are any others that paint a more complete picture please bring to discussion.

Basically on the season Hayward has maintained a higher level of play than DD for a longer time.

He is miles more efficient than DD, albeit on a slightly lower USG%. Offensively Hayward is on another planet compared to DD.

I'm not going to go into defensively because 1) don't trust the numbers and 2) haven't look at them. Although my eyes tell me Hayward is a better defender.

I do think that it is time to trade DD, he is no longer in the conversation for top 15 SG in the league (I didn't think he was to begin with), and wont be for the remainder of his career with the progression of the league. Time to move on Raps fans

[tDotted]

I do think that it is time to trade DD, he is no longer in the conversation for top 15 SG in the league (I didn't think he was to begin with)

TOP 15?? he was an allstar last season and he isn't top 15?? 15 guys who are better: go.

[OldSkoolCool]

No particular order, also don't forget the part about "with the progression of the league":

Butler
Antetokounmpo
Wade
Kobe
Wiggins
Thompson
Beal
Oladipo
Genobli
Hayward
Matthews
Harden
Wroten
Crawford
Korver
-------------------15 already
MacLemore
Ellis
Lee
(plus ones like Durant - who is a "SG" in all senses except that SF label)

The all-star and face-of-the-franchise labels are getting in the way of how severely inefficient DD really is. The list of players above may not have some people who are as individually talented as DeMar, but who are better at filling their role in the offense than DD (hence better in my books)

[tDotted]

No particular order, also don't forget the part about "with the progression of the league":

Butler
Antetokounmpo
Wade
Kobe
Wiggins
Thompson
Beal
Oladipo
Genobli
Hayward
Matthews
Harden
Wroten
Crawford
Korver
-------------------15 already
MacLemore
Ellis
Lee
(plus ones like Durant - who is a "SG" in all senses except that SF label)

The all-star and face-of-the-franchise labels are getting in the way of how severely inefficient DD really is. The list of players above may not have some people who are as individually talented as DeMar, but who are better at filling their role in the offense than DD (hence better in my books)

glad you added the "filling their role" part but that list is still way too long. greek freak (he's played more minutes at the 3 and 4), wroten, crawford, kobe and wiggins are all stretches since you value efficiency.

only 5 of those guys are true #1 options on their team as well so I'm not really buying that either. having opposing defenses set up specifically for you nightly severely hinders efficiency.

and what exactly do you mean by 'progression of the league'? you have old guys like manu, crawford, korver, wade, and kobe.

[CNinja26]

The sooner Raptors management realizes that DeMar is Rudy 2.0, the better off we'll be. We should use the salary we'll have to pay him for someone who can put up his numbers more efficiently (which, save free throw attempts/makes, should be a pretty doable task).

[The Great One]

No particular order, also don't forget the part about "with the progression of the league":

Butler
Antetokounmpo
Wade
Kobe
Wiggins
Thompson
Beal
Oladipo
Genobli
Hayward
Matthews
Harden
Wroten
Crawford
Korver
-------------------15 already
MacLemore
Ellis
Lee
(plus ones like Durant - who is a "SG" in all senses except that SF label)

The all-star and face-of-the-franchise labels are getting in the way of how severely inefficient DD really is. The list of players above may not have some people who are as individually talented as DeMar, but who are better at filling their role in the offense than DD (hence better in my books)

No comment

[OldSkoolCool]

glad you added the "filling their role" part but that list is still way too long. greek freak (he's played more minutes at the 3 and 4), wroten, crawford, kobe and wiggins are all stretches since you value efficiency.

only 5 of those guys are true #1 options on their team as well so I'm not really buying that either. having opposing defenses set up specifically for you nightly severely hinders efficiency.

and what exactly do you mean by 'progression of the league'? you have old guys like manu, crawford, korver, wade, and kobe.

Yes I have old guys, who are still better than DD.

There will also be players who have yet to be drafted who will be better than DD. Then you have players like Stauskas, who imo will be very good with time.

DD is not that good, but rather plays for a team that is solely dedicated to gifting the guy un-earned shots for years.

[tDotted]

Yes I have old guys, who are still better than DD.

There will also be players who have yet to be drafted who will be better than DD. Then you have players like Stauskas, who imo will be very good with time.

DD is not that good, but rather plays for a team that is solely dedicated to gifting the guy un-earned shots for years.

I don't care about the old guys, just wondering what that meant with the 'progression of the league' thing.

DD is a really good player. Not great but at the top level of "good". 22.7 points per game last season and 20.7 this year before he went down. He's inefficient because this system sucks, plain and simple. If Bargnani can put up an efficient 20 ppg season, despite sucking ass, in a different system I believe Derozan can as well.

[Mr.Z]

No particular order, also don't forget the part about "with the progression of the league":

Butler
Antetokounmpo
Wade
Kobe
Wiggins
Thompson
Beal
Oladipo
Genobli
Hayward
Matthews
Harden
Wroten
Crawford
Korver
-------------------15 already
MacLemore
Ellis
Lee
(plus ones like Durant - who is a "SG" in all senses except that SF label)

The all-star and face-of-the-franchise labels are getting in the way of how severely inefficient DD really is. The list of players above may not have some people who are as individually talented as DeMar, but who are better at filling their role in the offense than DD (hence better in my books)

That's just fucked up. You think all those guys are better than DeMar? Holy shit man lol

[Jrice9]

Butler-Sure
Antetokounmpo-Lol
Wade-Closer than you think, but sure (I'd rather DeMar if it was a straight up choice factoring age)
Kobe-By what standard could this be true anymore
Wiggins-Better asset, worse player as of now
Thompson-Sure
Beal-No, Beal is good but he's not as good as DeMar is yet. Straight up on a value thing its a good discussion
Oladipo-No
Genobli-Its Ginobili but nope.
Hayward-No
Matthews-Pretty close,
Harden-Sure, he's the MVP
Wroten-You're kidding right
Crawford-Nooo, god no
Korver-Its comparing apples and oranges. I'd rather Korver if I'm the hawks but in the role the Raptors need, I'd rather DeMar
-------------------15 already
MacLemore-No
Ellis-He's a good player. DeMar is better though
Lee-Are we talking about Courtney Lee? Are you kidding?
(plus ones like Durant - who is a "SG" in all senses except that SF label)

My thoughts on the list

[Abbas]

the guy who made the list

is he high on crack or heroin ?

[Mindlessness]

No particular order, also don't forget the part about "with the progression of the league":

Butler
Antetokounmpo
Wade
Kobe
Wiggins
Thompson
Beal
Oladipo
Genobli
Hayward
Matthews
Harden
Wroten
Crawford
Korver
-------------------15 already
MacLemore
Ellis
Lee
(plus ones like Durant - who is a "SG" in all senses except that SF label)

The all-star and face-of-the-franchise labels are getting in the way of how severely inefficient DD really is. The list of players above may not have some people who are as individually talented as DeMar, but who are better at filling their role in the offense than DD (hence better in my books)

I mean, I'm all for trading DD, but this isn't really at all reasonable. Only guys on that list I take over DD production-wise are Butler and Harden, and maybe Wade. (obv. Durant but I still consider him an SF).

I take PG-13 too when healthy.

At best, DD's a top-5 SG to me. At worst he's a top 10er, but no lower.

[The Great One]

That's just fucked up. You think all those guys are better than DeMar? Holy shit man lol

Meh. Trolling obviously if not wow lol.

[Chr1s1anL]

Re: Re-assessing the DD vs Hayward this season argument that was started earlier this season. The counter argument was small sample size so I said I would revisit after 20 games. DD has now played 29.

So here she goes (basketball-reference.com), bolded indicates the player with the better number.

DeMar

USG%: 27.7
TS%: 0.488
DRB%: 12.5
AST%: 15.3
PER: 15.3
WS/48: 0.063
PPG: 18.0
APG: 3.1
2P%: 0.418
3P%: 0.211
Ftr: 0.447

Hayward

USG%: 25.2
TS%: 0.579
DRB%: 14.2
AST%: 21.1
PER: 20.2
WS/48: 0.146
PPG: 19.3
APG: 4.1
2P%: 0.486
3P%: 0.392
Ftr: 0.415

So I think I have a good balance of stats there, but if there are any others that paint a more complete picture please bring to discussion.

Basically on the season Hayward has maintained a higher level of play than DD for a longer time.

He is miles more efficient than DD, albeit on a slightly lower USG%. Offensively Hayward is on another planet compared to DD.

I'm not going to go into defensively because 1) don't trust the numbers and 2) haven't look at them. Although my eyes tell me Hayward is a better defender.

I do think that it is time to trade DD, he is no longer in the conversation for top 15 SG in the league (I didn't think he was to begin with), and wont be for the remainder of his career with the progression of the league. Time to move on Raps fans

Well obviously team USA disagree with you