Everything Derozan

[big boi]

Are you seriously asking for basic stats in a discussion about player efficiency?

Advanced stats and analytics are here to stay. You know why? Because they actually fucking work.

Woah keyboard warrior. Calm down.

Didn't suggest they weren't here to stay. Was asking, nicely, for the stats Dan was quoting earlier in this thread. Please don't let it get to you.

[Axel]

Hey Dan. Are you able to show rankings of starting 2 guards rebounds, assists (points) etc? Do you have it handy? Or whatever usage rate (have to admit I'm not familiar with all the stats used these days) you have / were using.

Honestly, I'm interested. Prepared to be wrong and enlightened. And it seems like you have a good handle on the numbers.

Thanks

You would need a single statistic to show any ranking. But from Starting SGs:

In terms of PPG - Demar is 6th for SG (him and Kobe are the only top 25 to be shooting less than 40% FG)
In term of RPG - Demar is 9th for SG
In terms of APG - Demar is 11th for SG
In terms of FG% - Demar is 30th for SG
In terms of MPG - Demar is 10th for SG

[big boi]

You would need a single statistic to show any ranking. But from Starting SGs:

In terms of PPG - Demar is 6th for SG (him and Kobe are the only top 25 to be shooting less than 40% FG)
In term of RPG - Demar is 9th for SG
In terms of APG - Demar is 11th for SG
In terms of FG% - Demar is 30th for SG
In terms of MPG - Demar is 10th for SG

Thanks man. I appreciate it. Yeah that 30th in FG % is not flattering.

[Axel]

You would need a single statistic to show any ranking. But from Starting SGs:

In terms of PPG - Demar is 6th for SG (him and Kobe are the only top 25 to be shooting less than 40% FG)
In term of RPG - Demar is 9th for SG
In terms of APG - Demar is 11th for SG
In terms of FG% - Demar is 30th for SG
In terms of MPG - Demar is 10th for SG

Hey Dan. Are you able to show rankings of starting 2 guards rebounds, assists (points) etc? Do you have it handy? Or whatever usage rate (have to admit I'm not familiar with all the stats used these days) you have / were using.

Honestly, I'm interested. Prepared to be wrong and enlightened. And it seems like you have a good handle on the numbers.

Thanks

If you want Advanced Stats:

Demar is 5th in FGA per 100 possessions
Demar is 5th in Usage %
Demar is 30th in TS%
Demar is 29th in VORP (Value Over Replacement Player)
Demar is 15th in Win Shares per 48

[Axel]

All of that really just supports what you can see from watching him, he is a high volume player who is very inefficient. He gets a lot of minutes and a lot of shots in those minutes, but doesn't play the efficient game (poor shooting and overall lack of threes).

[buckets]

Anyone else noticed Demar ain't really getting up like that on drives anymore? Seen a couple plays that would usaully be a huge dunk that are ending up as just layups. Doesn't seem like a huge deal as it seems he is moving around the court just fine but it's prolly something to keep an eye on

[big boi]

All of that really just supports what you can see from watching him, he is a high volume player who is very inefficient. He gets a lot of minutes and a lot of shots in those minutes, but doesn't play the efficient game (poor shooting and overall lack of threes).

Yeah. Am obviously going to have to familiarize myself with those stats if I'm going to be able to hang.

I think what bugs me from time to time is the absolutism that goes on here. That Demar is either the greatest, stats be damned (or somehow his game can't be measured effectively by stats)... Or that he is terrible and needs to be traded immediately if possible. He's an overall good player, solid contributor, that is taking bad shots. And I have said early and often that I don't like his shot section.

He's obviously an imperfect player, more many here feel otherwise. I do think it's possible he can take better shots. And I think it's possible he can improve his D. The rest, not sure.

[big boi]

DOUBT ... Many here feel otherwise

[Jrice9]

Just a quick note, while rate statistics are better when comparing players with similar but not exactly the same minutes, it seems flawed to me when they are used compare rate statistics of bench rotation players and high minute starters (like Demar and Lowry). With greater minutes and greater usage there will be natural diminishing returns but overall its worth it to Casey to leave DeMar and Lowry in even if it hurts their overall efficiency.

[Mindlessness]

Just a quick note, while rate statistics are better when comparing players with similar but not exactly the same minutes, it seems flawed to me when they are used compare rate statistics of bench rotation players and high minute starters (like Demar and Lowry). With greater minutes and greater usage there will be natural diminishing returns but overall its worth it to Casey to leave DeMar and Lowry in even if it hurts their overall efficiency.

Which is why you can adjust the amount of minutes a player plays, whether per game, or totals, to see their ranking compared to their actual peers.

Here are all the stats Axel posted with the above qualification. All for DeMar, whose played 1069 minutes this season. So all players he's ranked against have played these many minutes.
(couldn't sort out PGs, so I just counted all the SGs above him instead)

FGA per 100: 7th
USG%: 5th
TS%: 32nd
VORP: 27th
WS/48: 16th

[KHD]

Woah keyboard warrior. Calm down.

Didn't suggest they weren't here to stay. Was asking, nicely, for the stats Dan was quoting earlier in this thread. Please don't let it get to you.

what is a keyboard warrior?

I misread your initial post, I actually thought you wanted to use raw stats to argue with, my bad.

[big boi]

what is a keyboard warrior?

I misread your initial post, I actually thought you wanted to use raw stats to argue with, my bad.

Oh. My bad too then. Thought you jumped down my throat a little there. Hup Holland Hup!!

[Axel]

Just going to let this sit here. Demar this year and Rudy last year (totals of split time with Toronto/Sac).

	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3p%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PPG
Demar	33.4	6.1	15.5	.394	0.3	1.3	.214	5.9	7.3	.800	0.6	3.7	4.3	3.3	1.3	0.2	2.1	2.1	18.3
Rudy Gay	34.7	7.4	16.2	.455	0.9	2.7	.330	4.4	5.3	.822	1.5	4.4	6.0	2.9	1.3	0.8	3.1	2.3	20.0

Both had Usage% around 28% (DD 28.0%, Gay 27.6%). TS% for Rudy was .540, Demar is .490.

[Superjudge]

We need to trade Demar for Klay Thompson, or James Harden!!!

[Jangles]

We need to trade Demar for Klay Thompson, or James Harden!!!

I'd settle for Nic Batum.