Everything Derozan

[Axel]

Sigh.... The excuses are mounting.

Sorry, I don't buy all the excuses...

Sometimes as a big man you have to demand the ball! These guards get tunnel vision.

I see frustration at the officials but I can't say I ever saw him yell at one of guards or show anger towards his teammates for constantly looking him off.

Maybe he just doesn't want to be the focal point? I dunno. I do know that 2 FGA in 20+ mins is ridiculous and on him....Personally, I wouldn't even pump fake if I'm playing with selfish teammates. Get yours big fella!

Honestly, NO ONE on the team can even challenge JV at his position.....he's gotta speak up.


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Maybe he's been put in that role by the Coach and is doesn't want to disrupt the locker room. Young players often don't speak up and the one's that do are often the ones that shouldn't.

[KeonClark]

Apparently during that spell of games when DeMar was getting more assists than Lowry, Casey was asked in the post game what he thought about DeMar getting 9 assists. And Casey's response was something along the lines of "the 9 assists were good, but we need DeMar to be a scorer."

DeMar has shown that he can play in a team system and set guys up. But fact of the matter is, he has a scorer's mentality, it's pretty clear. If you have your coach saying that he needs DeMar to be a scorer and is basically downplaying his assists, what the heck do you expect is going to happen to a player that already naturally likes to be a scorer.

That's exactly what he said, I posted the same thing awhile back. Instead of trying to create a well rounded winner, poor man's LBJ or Magic (obviously not a real comparison but you get what I'm getting at), Dwane Casey wants to see Golden State Monte Ellis ball. Very frustrating.

[DDelight]

Why some people, in this board, have been assuming that DD is suppose to be this perfect super star franchise player or he is a failure and needs to be traded is beyond me !!!

The guy is getting paid 10 million a year ( Jordan Hill Money) and is still very young. He is at best, a 3rd best option in a NBA championship team.

The reason he is playing this role in Toronto is because our GM has failed to bring talent to this team that are better than him.

Exactly. I think this is the key thing that people seem to be ignoring. The way people talk about DeMar you would think he was drafted #1 and was told from the start that he was going to be our LeBron James, or Harden, or Curry, or Durant ...you get the point. He wasn't. He was drafted to play on a team that already had our star: Chris Bosh. Then when Bosh screwed us and left, DeMar was supposed to play alongside the next "star": Primo Bargnani. After that, it was the next "star": Rudy Gay. Are you seeing a pattern?

He wasn't drafted with the intentions of being our star player. Not only that but this is DeMar's first full season of even being considered the #1 go-to guy. That's not DeMar's fault. That's on the GM for not thinking we needed another player who was better than DeMar at fulfilling this role. DeMar doesn't need to go, he just needs to be paired up with a player that is better than him. I'm hoping Ujiri can pull something off. We have to build onto the talent of this team, not just swap talent for talent.

[KeonClark]

Sigh.... The excuses are mounting.

Sorry, I don't buy all the excuses...

Sometimes as a big man you have to demand the ball! These guards get tunnel vision.

I see frustration at the officials but I can't say I ever saw him yell at one of guards or show anger towards his teammates for constantly looking him off.

Maybe he just doesn't want to be the focal point? I dunno. I do know that 2 FGA in 20+ mins is ridiculous and on him....Personally, I wouldn't even pump fake if I'm playing with selfish teammates. Get yours big fella!

Honestly, NO ONE on the team can even challenge JV at his position.....he's gotta speak up.


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Maybe because he's 22 with broken english and the hierarchy on the team doesn't make him feel apt to "yell at one of his guards"? Maybe he's just a nice unassuming guy?

What is ridiculous is you saying the 7 foot lug who waits patiently in prime post position and is not allowed to handle the ball is at fault for his low field goal percentage. He gets the ball, he tries to score. Period.

And I personally question YOUR basketball IQ when you say if I was him I wouldn't even pump fake, just "get yours". You know why he's trying to pump fake, right? To get defenders off their feet or blow by them, another tool to trying to score. Pump faking doesn't equate to being scared of the ball or scoring so really no idea where you're going with this one, special guy.

[special1]

Everything Demar Derozan

..

[Axel]

Exactly. I think this is the key thing that people seem to be ignoring. The way people talk about DeMar you would think he was drafted #1 and was told from the start that he was going to be our LeBron James, or Harden, or Curry, or Durant ...you get the point. He wasn't. He was drafted to play on a team that already had our star: Chris Bosh. Then when Bosh screwed us and left, DeMar was supposed to play alongside the next "star": Primo Bargnani. After that, it was the next "star": Rudy Gay. Are you seeing a pattern?

He wasn't drafted with the intentions of being our star player. Not only that but this is DeMar's first full season of even being considered the #1 go-to guy. That's not DeMar's fault. That's on the GM for not thinking we needed another player who was better than DeMar at fulfilling this role. DeMar doesn't need to go, he just needs to be paired up with a player that is better than him. I'm hoping Ujiri can pull something off. We have to build onto the talent of this team, not just swap talent for talent.

Right....cause no team can operate an offence built on good spacing and ball movement.

PS - fuck pink font

[KeonClark]

Why some people, in this board, have been assuming that DD is suppose to be this perfect super star franchise player or he is a failure and needs to be traded is beyond me !!!

The guy is getting paid 10 million a year ( Jordan Hill Money) and is still very young. He is at best, a 3rd best option in a NBA championship team.

The reason he is playing this role in Toronto is because our GM has failed to bring talent to this team that are better than him.

So now one guy says its Ujiri's fault, another guy is blaming Jonas. Sounds to me like a lot of excuses for a guy who can dunk like hell but insists on fadeways.

I challenge you and DDelight to name ONE NBA player that can score better than Demar that under any circumstance was available and willing to play for Toronto in the past 2 years. ONE. Go on, I'll wait.

[special1]

Exactly. I think this is the key thing that people seem to be ignoring. The way people talk about DeMar you would think he was drafted #1 and was told from the start that he was going to be our LeBron James, or Harden, or Curry, or Durant ...you get the point. He wasn't. He was drafted to play on a team that already had our star: Chris Bosh. Then when Bosh screwed us and left, DeMar was supposed to play alongside the next "star": Primo Bargnani. After that, it was the next "star": Rudy Gay. Are you seeing a pattern?

He wasn't drafted with the intentions of being our star player. Not only that but this is DeMar's first full season of even being considered the #1 go-to guy. That's not DeMar's fault. That's on the GM for not thinking we needed another player who was better than DeMar at fulfilling this role. DeMar doesn't need to go, he just needs to be paired up with a player that is better than him. I'm hoping Ujiri can pull something off. We have to build onto the talent of this team, not just swap talent for talent.

This^


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[KeonClark]

..

^Debate champion

[Joey]

Right....cause no team can operate an offence built on good spacing and ball movement.

I don't think he ever said this though. Or even implied it.

[DDelight]

Right....cause no team can operate an offence built on good spacing and ball movement.

PS - fuck pink font

Can you elaborate? What did I say that was incorrect and how does your point prove that.

How many top team's in this league play like Atlanta and the Spurs with no go-to guy? It's just them. Every other top team has a "go-to" guy. Dallas has Monta (and Dirk of course). Cleveland has James. OKC has Westbrook/Durant. Portland has Lillard/Aldridge. Washington has Wall. Bulls have Rose (and this year, Butler who improved). GS has Curry.

Most team's have the 1 or 2 go-to guys. Everyone loves this storybook season of Atlanta and suddenly not playing like them is so ridiculous, it's incomprehensibly stupid. I will raise my hand before anyone and say I wish this team had better ball movement and a less predictable, more sophisticated offense. But to blame that on DeMar is ridiculous. The coach needs to foster and encourage an offense like that. Instead he's telling a guy who has never been considered the #1 option for a GOOD team, not just any team, but an actual PLAYOFF team to go out and "score" and forget about getting assists. And suddenly DeRozan is this selfish hog that needs to go.

[Axel]

Exactly. I think this is the key thing that people seem to be ignoring. The way people talk about DeMar you would think he was drafted #1 and was told from the start that he was going to be our LeBron James, or Harden, or Curry, or Durant ...you get the point. He wasn't. He was drafted to play on a team that already had our star: Chris Bosh. Then when Bosh screwed us and left, DeMar was supposed to play alongside the next "star": Primo Bargnani. After that, it was the next "star": Rudy Gay. Are you seeing a pattern?

He wasn't drafted with the intentions of being our star player. Not only that but this is DeMar's first full season of even being considered the #1 go-to guy. That's not DeMar's fault. That's on the GM for not thinking we needed another player who was better than DeMar at fulfilling this role. DeMar doesn't need to go, he just needs to be paired up with a player that is better than him. I'm hoping Ujiri can pull something off. We have to build onto the talent of this team, not just swap talent for talent.

I don't think he ever said this though. Or even implied it.

The bold implies that this role that DD plays is mandatory for a team.

[Joey]

I challenge you and DDelight to name ONE NBA player that can score better than Demar that under any circumstance was available and willing to play for Toronto in the past 2 years. ONE. Go on, I'll wait.

This seems like a silly challenge .. and a fruitless one at that.
Regardless of who was available (what does that matter anyway?), the fact of the matter is, is that Demar has never been viewed as a "Saviour" and anyone who bills him as such is sure to be disappointed and upset.
But he IS a good young player, on a good contract who has proven that with hard work he can get better, and when within a system, he can contribute and be effective.

[Axel]

Can you elaborate? What did I say that was incorrect and how does your point prove that.

How many top team's in this league play like Atlanta and the Spurs with no go-to guy? It's just them. Every other top team has a "go-to" guy. Dallas has Monta (and Dirk of course). Cleveland has James. OKC has Westbrook/Durant. Portland has Lillard/Aldridge. Washington has Wall. Bulls have Rose (and this year, Butler who improved). GS has Curry.

Most team's have the 1 or 2 go-to guys. Everyone loves this storybook season of Atlanta and suddenly not playing like them is so ridiculous, it's incomprehensibly stupid. I will raise my hand before anyone and say I wish this team had better ball movement and a less predictable, more sophisticated offense. But to blame that on DeMar is ridiculous. The coach needs to foster and encourage an offense like that. Instead he's telling a guy who has never been considered the #1 option for a GOOD team, not just any team, but an actual PLAYOFF team to go out and "score" and forget about getting assists. And suddenly DeRozan is this selfish hog that needs to go.

Demar has been the same player (with varying success) since his sophomore year. Casey is definitely a problem, but Demar played this style before Casey and I'm not confident that he would adapt to a post-Casey era.

[Scraptor]

I dunno, 1 on 1 stats are basically non-existent. For sample size comparison, LeBron James' top 5 opponents would have sample sizes of 77, 65, 63, 47, 37.

Chris Paul's top 5 opponents is 55, 42, 39, 39, 38.

Both of their careers have been longer and more shot attempts than DD. For an individual defender, the numbers would be affected by either player injury, career overlap, opponent trades, playoff series, etc. Not sure how big of a sample would exist.

I can't speak to the quality of that site's stats, but Joey is right. I watched all the games against Chicago last year and DeMar actually did really well against Jimmy Butler.

DeMar has it in him to be an effective player, and that's what's so frustrating. Especially for people like me who are in the middle and don't think he's trash. Just like Rudy, if you put him on a team with a true number one, and put him in a system that maximizes his strengths, he's going to produce.

But we just don't have either of those things right now.