Everything Derozan

[JimiCliff]

Forget about the numbers, forget about the analytics, forget about how many points Wiggins scored one game. If you're curious about Demar's defence, spend a game watching him every second on defence. Don't look at the ball, don't look at other matchups. Keep your eyes glued on him, watch everything he does. You're going to be surprised, whether you're a Demar fan or not.

[Chr1s1anL]

Forget about the numbers, forget about the analytics, forget about how many points Wiggins scored one game. If you're curious about Demar's defence, spend a game watching him every second on defence. Don't look at the ball, don't look at other matchups. Keep your eyes glued on him, watch everything he does. You're going to be surprised, whether you're a Demar fan or not.

+1 fundamentally DD has gotten better every year on D. No one is saying his a stopper but to say his a terrible and dumb defender is just foolish. You guys should watch the game more instead of waiting for the numbers to come out(which aren't even that bad probably)

[Bandit]

Forget about the numbers, forget about the analytics, forget about how many points Wiggins scored one game. If you're curious about Demar's defence, spend a game watching him every second on defence. Don't look at the ball, don't look at other matchups. Keep your eyes glued on him, watch everything he does. You're going to be surprised, whether you're a Demar fan or not.

Demar is actually a great team defender, he knows his rotations and where he should be. He plays within the system very well. He is also an above average defender.

The fact that wiggins went 6/9 is a testament to the fact that he will probably become a superstar talent in the league, not a shot on derozan. Don't think so? Watch what wiggins did to Lebron. That kid is good, and that does not take away the fact that lately derozan has gotten back to his All-star level play.

He is making his game look easy again, getting into lanes and passing off to his bigs better than I think he ever has before. He is finding guys on the perimeter very well and is generating some great looks. I think our offense runs at its best when DD plays like a point forward attacking the paint, and he has done it with great efficiency down this stretch.

[mcHAPPY]

Forget about the numbers, forget about the analytics, forget about how many points Wiggins scored one game. If you're curious about Demar's defence, spend a game watching him every second on defence. Don't look at the ball, don't look at other matchups. Keep your eyes glued on him, watch everything he does. You're going to be surprised, whether you're a Demar fan or not.

I just watched the condensed game of Minnesota.

Not every play was shown but his d was awful.

[mcHAPPY]

Demar is actually a great team defender, he knows his rotations and where he should be. He plays within the system very well. He is also an above average defender.

The fact that wiggins went 6/9 is a testament to the fact that he will probably become a superstar talent in the league, not a shot on derozan. Don't think so? Watch what wiggins did to Lebron. That kid is good, and that does not take away the fact that lately derozan has gotten back to his All-star level play.

He is making his game look easy again, getting into lanes and passing off to his bigs better than I think he ever has before. He is finding guys on the perimeter very well and is generating some great looks. I think our offense runs at its best when DD plays like a point forward attacking the paint, and he has done it with great efficiency down this stretch.

He has been in Casey's system for 4 years now. I hope he knows it!

He is good at the first rotation. After that he is lost. It was really evident when he was out and Vasquez took his place in starting lineup.

[Bandit]

He has been in Casey's system for 4 years now. I hope he knows it!

He is good at the first rotation. After that he is lost. It was really evident when he was out and Vasquez took his place in starting lineup.

See I'm not sure I can agree with that, I think Vasquez looks like he makes his rotations better but I dont think I have ever seen a play where the ball was stopped and thought " oh hey look, Vasquez actually got there in time". He doesn't stray very far from the perimeter because he isn't quick enough which makes other people have to make his rotation, but then when it comes to his guy he gets blown by anyways.

Demar will get caught in situations where he rotates to the same guy as someone else but that's as much on him as it is the rest of the team. I would rather what Demar brings defensively compared to what Kyle has been bringing Post all-star break

[mcHAPPY]

See I'm not sure I can agree with that, I think Vasquez looks like he makes his rotations better but I dont think I have ever seen a play where the ball was stopped and thought " oh hey look, Vasquez actually got there in time". He doesn't stray very far from the perimeter because he isn't quick enough which makes other people have to make his rotation, but then when it comes to his guy he gets blown by anyways.

Demar will get caught in situations where he rotates to the same guy as someone else but that's as much on him as it is the rest of the team. I would rather what Demar brings defensively compared to what Kyle has been bringing Post all-star break

Sorry I should have clarified.

Dd is really good at that first rotation. GV is terrible. It was evident when DD went out. DD is horrible at anything beyond that first rotation and is another example of his lack of natural feel for the game and ball IQ.

[Bandit]

Sorry I should have clarified.

Dd is really good at that first rotation. GV is terrible. It was evident when DD went out. DD is horrible at anything beyond that first rotation and is another example of his lack of natural feel for the game and ball IQ.

Haha ok, I was trying to figure out a way to make an argument for GV to be good in that system... I couldn't do it.

Now my question would be; on the majority of our defensive possessions where each player is required to make more than one rotation, who qualifies as an excellent player and how often do opposing teams score even with our best defensive line ups?

I can honestly say I don't think that anyone is in place more often than not, even with our best and most aware players out there. There are those who are better than DD, and those who are worse, but as a team it doesn't really matter. Scrambling should be a last resort to stopping the ball, not the foundation on which it is built. If you play solid team defense and deny what they want then you shouldn't need to worry about hitting the second and third rotation on a regular basis.

I guess my point is: Demar is great at the first rotation. He sucks at the second. Find me evidence that there are players on the team who are better than he is. Prove that there is actually a rotation system in place versus a straight up scramble, which would determine if there is even anything in place on which we can judge rotational abilities.

[mcHAPPY]

Haha ok, I was trying to figure out a way to make an argument for GV to be good in that system... I couldn't do it.

Now my question would be; on the majority of our defensive possessions where each player is required to make more than one rotation, who qualifies as an excellent player and how often do opposing teams score even with our best defensive line ups?

I can honestly say I don't think that anyone is in place more often than not, even with our best and most aware players out there. There are those who are better than DD, and those who are worse, but as a team it doesn't really matter. Scrambling should be a last resort to stopping the ball, not the foundation on which it is built. If you play solid team defense and deny what they want then you shouldn't need to worry about hitting the second and third rotation on a regular basis.

I guess my point is: Demar is great at the first rotation. He sucks at the second. Find me evidence that there are players on the team who are better than he is. Prove that there is actually a rotation system in place versus a straight up scramble, which would determine if there is even anything in place on which we can judge rotational abilities.

I don't have the tools to find that information outside of going back and rewatching games but I will start paying attention to this.

For me there is no question there are rotations and a system in place. Sadly they rely on multiple players reading and reacting in sync. Through a couple of players who are low IQ or are more interested in returning to offense ASAP and you have the 25th worst D in the league. I believe the scramble unit refers more to faster, more agile players than an actual strategy.

[Bandit]

I don't have the tools to find that information outside of going back and rewatching games but I will start paying attention to this.

For me there is no question there are rotations and a system in place. Sadly they rely on multiple players reading and reacting in sync. Through a couple of players who are low IQ or are more interested in returning to offense ASAP and you have the 25th worst D in the league. I believe the scramble unit refers more to faster, more agile players than an actual strategy.

I think there is a system, but I don't believe there are set rotations. Like you said they rely on everyone reading the court and coming to the same conclusion at NBA speed. Even the teams that have used that type of defense and found success always had a way of slowing the ball down to have time to react, the raptors don't do that. They just scramble around trying to fill lanes and find a guy. That's the type of defense you teach to Junior players in HS to cover transition attacks...

Even the games that have the other team show low percentages, more often than not it's because they can't hit the broadside of a barn with a pass or a shot.

[Bendit]

That game was also Wiggins first as a pro in Canada/Toronto (home). I think mentally that is a big deal to absorb. DD didnt do so good his first couple of times back in LA.

[Chr1s1anL]

This was never a DeRozan vs Wiggins discussion. I was just using that game as an example of how DD's D has improved over the year. I'm also waiting on a stat that shows DD as being a negative on D.

[JimiCliff]

Demar is actually a great team defender, he knows his rotations and where he should be. He plays within the system very well. He is also an above average defender.

The fact that wiggins went 6/9 is a testament to the fact that he will probably become a superstar talent in the league, not a shot on derozan. Don't think so? Watch what wiggins did to Lebron. That kid is good, and that does not take away the fact that lately derozan has gotten back to his All-star level play.

He is making his game look easy again, getting into lanes and passing off to his bigs better than I think he ever has before. He is finding guys on the perimeter very well and is generating some great looks. I think our offense runs at its best when DD plays like a point forward attacking the paint, and he has done it with great efficiency down this stretch.

The bold above is the common narrative I see used to defend Demar's defence. After watching him more closely lately, I wouldn't say he's a great team defender. I'd say that he's very aware of the team's schemes, and he's always conscious of executing them and giving help. However, he has significant difficulty doing this while also keeping track of his own man, and this often leads to fatal breakdowns.

Another thing I've noticed: he has an inability/unwillingness to box out that borders on comical.

Edit: All that said, I've only just started watching him very closely, so the sample size is small.

[Bandit]

The bold above is the common narrative I see used to defend Demar's defence. After watching him more closely lately, I wouldn't say he's a great team defender. I'd say that he's very aware of the team's schemes, and he's always conscious of executing them and giving help. However, he has significant difficulty doing this while also keeping track of his own man, and this often leads to fatal breakdowns.

Another thing I've noticed: he has an inability/unwillingness to box out that borders on comical.

Edit: All that said, I've only just started watching him very closely, so the sample size is small.

That was well put, I can't disagree with you on that. I suppose great TEAM defender may encompass more than what he actually does.

However my later point still stands that I think very few players, if any, are able to follow the rotations and look like capable defenders in this system. Teams play us with lots of weakside and backdoor action while running us through a screen, everyone is trying to watch where everyone else is going and completely forget to worry about quality man defense. Even good defenders on our team have been made to look the fool on more than one occasion.

[planetmars]

The Raptors perimeter defense is awful but DD has actually been pretty decent this year in relation. GV is Bargnani bad. Lou is awful. Ross has regressed. Lowry is better then DD but I wouldn't say by much.

DD has his problems, but his defense is not something I'm upset by.