Everything Derozan

[Joey]

Hmmm? I was going to post that after Dan's post, but I saw him saying "That's the best one to use" and thought that implied well enough that it has problems.

So what DRPM should Demar have then?

[mcHAPPY]

The problem here is that the few have made "Demar Hating" so personal to them that no logic can help them see past their points.

We don't know who the coach is going to be. We don't know what style of play this team will have. We don't have a reliable SG. We have ton of holes ( SF,PF) in this team as it is but the HATERS, want to trade DD, one of the two All Stars of the team, ASAP

You got to love this hate because it is purely illogical now.

HATERS and HATING are such conversation ending terms.

It is ironic that you're using such terms to describe anyone with a certain opinion which happens to be different than your own. Almost hypocritical, in my opinion.

But I do agree you just might have merit in your post once one gets by the language used to convey the message. I definitely have biases towards derozans game....but not him as a person.

If you insist on referring to DeRozan as an all-star I insist former be used in front of it.

You are absolutely correct the team has holes. What you either ignore or don't realize is what DeRozan brings to the table is probably easiest skill to replace - that being volume scoring wing. If he is 1/4 the player many here believe, his return should be nice especially considering what Masai was able to do with Bargs and Gay. Then there are the possible cap implications. Build this team around JV and Lowry - which so happen to be the two hardest to fill positions in the game.

[Mindlessness]

So what DRPM should Demar have then?

I dunno. Probably something worse than the guards I mentioned.

Why are you after me on this? I admitted that DRPM has its problems.

[Jangles]

I wonder how much who players guard skews these numbers. Does DD always (or usually) guard the opponents better wing player? Do guys like Butler or Klay?

Could be bias because we watch Demar a lot more but I would imagine that DD is a worse defender than Jimmy, Klay and Westbrook.

[Joey]

Could be bias because we watch Demar a lot more but I would imagine that DD is a worse defender than Jimmy, Klay and Westbrook.

Not the point. He's just not as bad as people make him out to be.

[mcHAPPY]

Not the point. He's just not as bad as people make him out to be.

Maybe not.

I fully admit to a bias.

One problem with stats though is it never takes in to account who the player in question is guarding.

It is very rare that DeRozan is asked to guard the oppositions best wing granted it is more frequent than in the past due to the constant 2 PG lineups.

[Jangles]

Not the point. He's just not as bad as people make him out to be.

He's probably not as good as some others make him out to be also.

[Mindlessness]

Not the point. He's just not as bad as people make him out to be.

I guess. But if you observe DeMar's defense and then relate to the stats; it is telling that he is a negative in say, DRPM.

On the other hand observing Butler, Westbrook, and Klay defending and then relate it to the stats; well, obviously observations wouldn't be as telling as the stats and your observations disagree.

[mcHAPPY]

So what DRPM should Demar have then?

http://bkref.com/tiny/qanpd

I tried to get DeRozan on a chart.

Thought it might have been to qualified for minutes played I had put in on account of his injury.
Thought it might have been due to positions so I checked G, then G with G-F, then G G-F and F-G.

Then I realized none of the charts had players who were negative.

So I just put that up as a means of reference. Remember DeRozan is -1.3.

[JimiCliff]

So far Dan's the only one who's given any tangible, concrete evidence: the players he checks shoot better than normal when demar guards them. That I can understand, and is hard to argue. (And that's without mentioning that more often than not, he guards the least threatening 1 2 or 3 on the floor). Other than that, I just see a lot name calling and baseless statements.

[mcHAPPY]

Dammit... How do you get charts from b-r on to here again? Been a while since I've done it.

[The Great One]

I was going to mention DRPM has its problems myself.

Nobody said DRPM was perfect, it's simply the best we have at measuring defensive impact. I mean, are you sure Butler, Westbrook, and Thompson are worse/slightly better than DeMar at defense. I certainly believe not.

EDIT: But in general, I think DRPM nails it in general, but it seems guards aren't well measured. Beverley, Westbrook, Conley, Butler, Afflalo, and Oladipo are apparently worse than DeRozan at defense. It seems to do better in the frontcourt.

This is why i hate numbers. DeRozan is NOT a better defender than Butler. It's not even close really. I don't care what the numbers say.

[tDotted]

This is why i hate numbers. DeRozan is NOT a better defender than Butler. It's not even close really. I don't care what the numbers say.

Butler's defense has dropped off this season because of his huge offensive load. Bull's defense has arguably fallen off because of it.

[enlightenment]

This is why i hate numbers. DeRozan is NOT a better defender than Butler. It's not even close really. I don't care what the numbers say.

Saying Derozan has played better defense this season is not the same as saying Derozan is a better defender. So your argument is not a valid attack on DRPM

[The Great One]

Saying Derozan has played better defense this season is not the same as saying Derozan is a better defender. So your argument is not a valid attack on DRPM

Ok. So you think DeRozan has played better defense this year than Butler? explain.