Everything Derozan

[S.R.]

After 352 pages, Is there any logical reason out there that why we should not hold on to DD and his bargain contract next year and try to see how he does under new head coach and new system ?

I think anyone without bias and personal agenda will say NO

All the usual reasons you would trade a guy during the last year of his contract - it happens all the time, including to guys much more talented than DeMar.

The discussion is worth having.

[McRealistic]

You don't trade your best player and a guy who carries your team based on unsubstantial personal agenda. You try him under the new system or trade him if there is an amazing offer on the table that will help your team and is more align with your long term plans.

I am sure MU is smarter than many of you guys who are just too buried into you personal hate for a player and can not see how valuable DD is to this team.

[consmap]

You don't trade your best player and a guy who carries your team based on unsubstantial personal agenda. You try him under the new system or trade him if there is an amazing offer on the table that will help your team and is more align with your long term plans.

I am sure MU is smarter than many of you guys who are just too buried into you personal hate for a player and can not see how valuable DD is to this team.

I think people are just questioning his ability to carry the team into title contention. He's a good player but I'm unsure of his ability to take us above and beyond


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[CalgaryRapsFan]

You don't trade your best player and a guy who carries your team based on unsubstantial personal agenda. You try him under the new system or trade him if there is an amazing offer on the table that will help your team and is more align with your long term plans.

I am sure MU is smarter than many of you guys who are just too buried into you personal hate for a player and can not see how valuable DD is to this team.

Do you actually read posts before replying?

Every response to you listed a legitimate issue that a GM must factor into any personnel decision:
- contract status
- future contract negotiations / salary cap implications
- asset management
- quality of trade offer

I fail to understand how there can be a bias or personal agenda/hate involved with a discussion about any of those topics, especially since none of them are even DeRozan-specific.

[McRealistic]

I think people are just questioning his ability to carry the team into title contention. He's a good player but I'm unsure of his ability to take us above and beyond


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He is not suppose to carry the team into the title contention. He is not a Super Star and he is not a First option in a Title contention team.

That is a ridiculous assumption and reason for wanting to trade him. DD is a 2nd best option ( at best) in a title contention team. Right now, he is getting paid 10 million. You don't trade that contract and a guy who has improved every year.

You build on this guy and try to bring in a Super Star that will play along him to take your team to title contention.

[S.R.]

You don't trade your best player and a guy who carries your team based on unsubstantial personal agenda. You try him under the new system or trade him if there is an amazing offer on the table that will help your team and is more align with your long term plans.

I am sure MU is smarter than many of you guys who are just too buried into you personal hate for a player and can not see how valuable DD is to this team.

Bold: I'm pretty sure you're not reading anything being written here.

Some of the reasons the Raps would move on without DeRozan would be similar to why the Hawks traded Joe Johnson and Memphis traded Pau Gasol. Two teams who moved their best player and built considerably better teams without him. That's absolutely in the cards for the Raps. DeRozan's a great guy and there's nothing personal about my opinion - quite the opposite, it's a bit painful that the best way forward for the team may mean parting ways with a guy who's given 100% to this city for his entire career. It would be a lot easier if he were Hedo.

[hotfuzz]

You don't trade your best player and a guy who carries your team based on unsubstantial personal agenda. You try him under the new system or trade him if there is an amazing offer on the table that will help your team and is more align with your long term plans.

I am sure MU is smarter than many of you guys who are just too buried into you personal hate for a player and can not see how valuable DD is to this team.

Bargnani was our best player at one point. You would have been against trading him too?

[McRealistic]

Bargnani was our best player at one point. You would have been against trading him too?

Nope. I was pro trading AB after his 2nd year here when he failed to improve his game. However, DD has improved his game every year, has a great work ethics , has a reasonable contract, is a hard worker, a great building block , a guy who can help your team compete, a guy that can be a part of your team in future.

AB was a flawed player with no work ethics and no desire to compete.

[S.R.]

He is not suppose to carry the team into the title contention. He is not a Super Star and he is not a First option in a Title contention team.

That is a ridiculous assumption and reason for wanting to trade him. DD is a 2nd best option ( at best) in a title contention team. Right now, he is getting paid 10 million. You don't trade that contract and a guy who has improved every year.

You build on this guy and try to bring in a Super Star that will play along him to take your team to title contention.

One of the problems is Lowry and DD arguably have a skill overlap. They'd both like to shoot 15+ FGA in the low 40's for percentage. That's not very good.

Fit is a real problem, especially as JV emerges and is worth designing more of the playbook for. The Cavs have a massive fit problem right now with Kevin Love, who is arguably a top 10 player in the league. They could be doing just as well with Channing Frye right now, and if the weren't contenders it would absolutely be worth looking at turning Love into 2 or 3 more complimentary players - just like they did with Waiters.

[McRealistic]

Bold: I'm pretty sure you're not reading anything being written here.

Some of the reasons the Raps would move on without DeRozan would be similar to why the Hawks traded Joe Johnson and Memphis traded Pau Gasol. Two teams who moved their best player and built considerably better teams without him. That's absolutely in the cards for the Raps. DeRozan's a great guy and there's nothing personal about my opinion - quite the opposite, it's a bit painful that the best way forward for the team may mean parting ways with a guy who's given 100% to this city for his entire career. It would be a lot easier if he were Hedo.

Joe Johnson was getting paid 20 million a year ... very more than what he was worth. Memphis was going to rebuild and knew they are not going anywhere.

We don't know what DD would want ( speculation), we don't know what the new salary cap will be, we don't know what direction this team wants to go next year ( rebuild or compete) and we don't know what the new coach's system is.

Joe Johnson and Pau were player at their peak who were making max money or close to max money. DD is a young player on the rise who is not even making close to maximum money and you can not tell me you think he will ask for max because no one knows that.

[S.R.]

Joe Johnson was getting paid 20 million a year ... very more than what he was worth. Memphis was going to rebuild and knew they are not going anywhere.

We don't know what DD would want ( speculation), we don't know what the new salary cap will be, we don't know what direction this team wants to go next year ( rebuild or compete) and we don't know what the new coach's system is.

Joe Johnson and Pau were player at their peak who were making max money or close to max money. DD is a young player on the rise who is not even making close to maximum money and you can not tell me you think he will ask for max because no one knows that.

That's it exactly, though - DeMar's next contract under the new cap may very well be $20m or more. That's the whole discussion.

If you trade him in the last year of his $10m contract, you probably get more back. If you want to wait and see how he does under a new coach, that's fine - you may lose some of the return you'd get from moving him as months tick away next season. Or you can gamble on FA next year, try to sign him to a team-friendly contract, and risk losing him if someone else offers $20m plus. Or the Raps offer him $20m plus and risk losing the ability (cap room) to sign that Tier 1 player you talk about putting in front of DeMar.

The ideal situation for keeping DeMar for me would be to see him redefine his role a bit under a new coach and become a second or third best player on the team. BUT - the team needs enough cap space to still pursue a max level FA, which is currently one of the options for the next two years. Making sure they get a max level guy is more important than making sure they keep DeMar. That's the main concern.

[McRealistic]

At the end of the day it comes to MU and the new coach.

MU needs to define where this team is going the next 203 years.
Is it going to a rebuild process again?
Is it going to retooling again?
Is it going to compete ?

New Head Coach needs to define how we play, what is our philosophy and our identity.

DD has his limitation. He will never be a Super Star, #1 option in your team. Everyone knows that and I am sure DD and his agents know that too.

But given his work ethics, his constant improvements, his love for the city, his versatility , the unknown nature of salary cap in 2016, the unknown nature of our playing style in 2015-2016 and his cheap salary, trading him makes ZERO sense at this moment.

There are more urgent issues that this team needs to address and it starts with new coach, new direction, SF, PF and back up C and better development plans for Bruno and Bebe and ...

DD is one of the only bright spots on this team. The rest is all speculations which are not based on any facts what so ever.

[hotfuzz]

Joe Johnson was getting paid 20 million a year ... very more than what he was worth. Memphis was going to rebuild and knew they are not going anywhere.

We don't know what DD would want ( speculation), we don't know what the new salary cap will be, we don't know what direction this team wants to go next year ( rebuild or compete) and we don't know what the new coach's system is.

Joe Johnson and Pau were player at their peak who were making max money or close to max money. DD is a young player on the rise who is not even making close to maximum money and you can not tell me you think he will ask for max because no one knows that.

Pretty sure some team will offer him godon hayward type money.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

At the end of the day it comes to MU and the new coach.

MU needs to define where this team is going the next 203 years.
Is it going to a rebuild process again?
Is it going to retooling again?
Is it going to compete ?

New Head Coach needs to define how we play, what is our philosophy and our identity.

DD has his limitation. He will never be a Super Star, #1 option in your team. Everyone knows that and I am sure DD and his agents know that too.

But given his work ethics, his constant improvements, his love for the city, his versatility , the unknown nature of salary cap in 2016, the unknown nature of our playing style in 2015-2016 and his cheap salary, trading him makes ZERO sense at this moment.

There are more urgent issues that this team needs to address and it starts with new coach, new direction, SF, PF and back up C and better development plans for Bruno and Bebe and ...

DD is one of the only bright spots on this team. The rest is all speculations which are not based on any facts what so ever.

There are 2 issues at play here:
1. DeRozan's future (ie: contract status/amount)
2. team building

With regards to #1, you're absolutely right that it's all speculation at this point. However, it's as much speculation to think that he won't opt-out, or to think that he won't demand max money, or that he even wants to re-sign with the Raptors. I'm sure people on both sides could find circumstantial evidence to boost their claims, but the fact remains that his contract status/uncertainty is a huge red flag for MU right now. Do you remember how BC speculated about Bosh staying?

With regards to #2, you keep talking about DeRozan being an ideal #2/3 option. However, you then turn around and talk about DeRozan being virtually untradeable - if a player isn't a definitive 1st option, he's highly tradeable. First, I think the Raptors have several #2/3 options on the roster, and they're also much easier to acquire via draft, trade or free agency. Second, in order to acquire that mythical #1 option, the Raptors will have to give up talent to get talent; right now, on his good-value contract as a young all-star player at the peak of his value, DeRozan (as a #2/3 option on a good team remember) might be the best way to land that #1 option.

[draps]

Demar won't take more than 15 mil. He wants to win and I don't think he cares about the money at all. He didn't even shake hands with bc after his last deal