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Multipaul wrote: View PostWhat level should he be at in terms of stats? What do you think?
Derozan's 16/4/2 (rounding) are acceptable numbers for a second year project guy that has absolutely nothing around him and are right about what I expected. Also, you have to remember that he had a horrible Nov/Dec. Since then, his scoring has been ~18.5-19/game. The assists are an issue but that is a systemic problem with this team.
My expectations for next year? I think he can score more efficiently so I expect his PPG to stay in the 18-19 range. I can live with 4 rebs and 3 assists. Those numbers would make him one of the better two guards in the league. The big issue is will his defence improve. That's the main deficiency in his game and he needs to get better there but to say he has disappointed this year is nonsense.
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slaw wrote: View PostSo, you were expecting Year 2 Demar = Kobe in his prime? Yeah, I'd say your expectations were maybe a little, just a touch, too high.... Good grief. If Demar was 20/5/5 he would be one of the elite guards in the league. That would make him the 3rd best rebounding guard in the NBA, #1 in assists among 2-guards, and #9 in scoring. He would arguably be on par with guys like Kobe, Wade, Ginobli. Did people really expect these kinds of numbers?
not really, kobe in his prime was 30/6/7. Wade in his prime was 30/7/5. Kobe in his 2nd year avg. 16/2/3, because Fisher, Fox, Eddie Jones, Van Exel and Shaq were all on that team. But Demar's 2nd year? Only Bargs. Im not saying he should be good or better than Kobe, but given the circumstances, i expected him to do more, much like the expectations everybody has put on Bargs.
If you dont expect the best out of your players, then youre just burying them in the waters of mediocrity. Of course you always expect your players to become the best that they can be, demand is another thing.
did the miami heat fans "expect" dwade to average 24/6/5 in his second year? of course they did. they drafted him 5th overall, in a team which had no clear-cut starting SG except him. Demar's minutes dramatically increased this season from last, from 21mins to 34. so im expecting his number would dramatically increase as well, and 20/5/5 is a bit dramatic. sure, maybe a little bit high too. im just saying he should be doing more, but im happy with his progression.
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tbihis wrote: View Postso 20/5/5 is reasonable then, i assume?
Defense and ball handling are my two hopes for him this summer.
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tbihis wrote: View PostI agree, you are not directly saying that a steal or block is bad, but you are implying it, when you say that a steal or block does not correlate to good defense, when in fact, it does. Youre not saying its bad, but you dont regard it as a good thing either. I do agree with your statement that getting a steal or block does not constitute being a good defensive player, but if you consistently get blocks and steals then you are a good defensive player. i think thats the word youve been missing. What im trying to instill is that steals and blocks are repertoires of a good defensive player. i dont think its coincidental that Howard has been back to back defensive player of the year and him averaging almost 3 blocks a game. although this award is given via media votes, only good defensive players are chosen as candidates for voting. When Artest won it, he avg a career best 2.1 stls, Wallace avg 2blks per game, and Howard 3 blks per game.
I think we've exhausted out arguments on Bargnani, you say he's a poor defender, i say he's just doesnt have the skill to be a good defender. Does he try, i believe so, but he probably is frustrated too that he doesnt have the ability to defend as people expect him to. Is that a liability? most definitely, but i dont regard it as a reason to crucify him. sad and unfair as it may sound but if they want to keep bargnani on the team, they have to mask his "inability" to defend. anyways, enough of Bargs because this is actually a demar thread.
i think people think demar has been a disappointment because of the expectations that was put on him at the start of the season. when bosh left, it may not be that obvious but the reigns was handed on to bargs and what bargs was to bosh before is what demar is now to bargs. and we all know the expectations everybody put on bargs alongside bosh. as per his natural progression goes in the NBA i dont think he's a disappointment but if you consider the "2nd option" tag, i guess i can see why. i for one am guilty of expecting him to average at least 20pts a game, 5 rebs and 5 asts. But that was my expectation, but im happy as to how he is playing now.
Blocks and steals are just like scoring. Scoring, unto itself, is great, because you need to score to win, but just scoring 20 points isn't good enough. You need to know HOW you scored those 20 points. Were they forced? Were they within the offense? Was it efficient? Mike James averaged 20 ppg his last year with the Raptors, but how valuable were those 20 ppg?
As for DeRozan, I think the vast majority of people are pleased with his progress, which can be evidenced by the comments on this thread. That's one of the highlights many people point to in this season. DeRozan and Davis' progression. As I pointed out earlier, this thread was basically a reactionary one because Multipaul was getting upset with all the Bargnani bashing, so he attacked someone he knows is well liked by the fans.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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Matt52 wrote: View PostIf DeMar was 20/5/5 on O and continued to improve on D, anyone who wanted more would be an unrealistic fool, in my humble opinion.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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slaw wrote: View PostWell, let's be crazy and use Kobe as benchmark. In Kobe's second season he averaged ~15/3/2.5. So, that's the numbers for the greatest player of his generation and arguably the second best 2-guard in the history of basketball. Now, you might say, hey Demar was supposed to Kobe and your Kobe numbers are his second year where he only played off the bench. Okay, let's go for year 3: 20/5/4 in 38 minutes.
Derozan's 16/4/2 (rounding) are acceptable numbers for a second year project guy that has absolutely nothing around him and are right about what I expected. Also, you have to remember that he had a horrible Nov/Dec. Since then, his scoring has been ~18.5-19/game. The assists are an issue but that is a systemic problem with this team.
My expectations for next year? I think he can score more efficiently so I expect his PPG to stay in the 18-19 range. I can live with 4 rebs and 3 assists. Those numbers would make him one of the better two guards in the league. The big issue is will his defence improve. That's the main deficiency in his game and he needs to get better there but to say he has disappointed this year is nonsense.
for next season, im hoping he avgs 20/5/5 but i dont expect him to. just because im expecting the raps to get a scoring PG/SF and a defensive big which will probably give more opportunity for bargs to score. i think this was demar's opportunity to make a mark, even if the raps make him a franchise player next year, i dont think he'll get the same opportunity as this year just because the pieces that the raps will add next season are probably going to eat into his shot attempts.
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slaw wrote: View PostWell, let's be crazy and use Kobe as benchmark. In Kobe's second season he averaged ~15/3/2.5. So, that's the numbers for the greatest player of his generation and arguably the second best 2-guard in the history of basketball. Now, you might say, hey Demar was supposed to Kobe and your Kobe numbers are his second year where he only played off the bench. Okay, let's go for year 3: 20/5/4 in 38 minutes.
Derozan's 16/4/2 (rounding) are acceptable numbers for a second year project guy that has absolutely nothing around him and are right about what I expected. Also, you have to remember that he had a horrible Nov/Dec. Since then, his scoring has been ~18.5-19/game. The assists are an issue but that is a systemic problem with this team.
My expectations for next year? I think he can score more efficiently so I expect his PPG to stay in the 18-19 range. I can live with 4 rebs and 3 assists. Those numbers would make him one of the better two guards in the league. The big issue is will his defence improve. That's the main deficiency in his game and he needs to get better there but to say he has disappointed this year is nonsense.
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tbihis wrote: View Postthats up to the coach then. if Bargs can exploit matchups on offense, Triano should be able to evaluate who to put against opposing scoring bigs. sure there will be instances when bargs will have to defend the opposing scoring big but it happens. what im essentially saying is if they want bargs to remain on this team, they have to make adjustments based on his abilities. i mean for the love of god we all know how a "bad" defender he is, so if the team is going to gripe about it every single time then trade or release the guy. if he's still here, that means they want him to stay, so either get him Patrick Ewing or Alonzo Mourning to coach him on his defense, or switch matchup so he wont be exploited on defense. teams do it all the time. you can see it with kobe, lebron, wade. im not saying theyre not good defenders, but they dont "usually" put your star to guard the other team's star the whole game.
In the playoffs, it gets even worse. Any weaknesses are exploited, and Bargnani's inability to defend will make it impossible to keep him on the floor for long periods, especially in crunch time. It's simply not worth it.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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Multipaul wrote: View PostHow many bpg does Demar have?
BOOM
Gotcha turtle speck
DeRozan is averaging 0.33 during that same stretch.
Just saying.Joshua Priemski
NBA blogger
SB Nation's Rufus on Fire
www.RufusOnFire.com/
www.twitter.com/HoopPlusTheHarm/
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And Bargnani's 0.33 spg is nothing short of amazing compared to DeRozan's 1.19 spg.Joshua Priemski
NBA blogger
SB Nation's Rufus on Fire
www.RufusOnFire.com/
www.twitter.com/HoopPlusTheHarm/
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Introcollapse wrote: View PostAnd Bargnani's 0.33 spg is nothing short of amazing compared to DeRozan's 1.19 spg.
I ask you, how do you feel about DD's improvement this year over last? Statistically?
Personally i think it is not that great for a 9th pick, starting 2 in the league.
What are your thoughts?
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