Everything Derozan

[rocwell]

Lillard just signed for an average of $25-26/yr for 5 yrs. Fully guaranteed.

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[OldSkoolCool]

Was looking at some scoring stats this morning and I decided to drop player efficiency ratings down alongside the top 20 scorers from 2015. I figured I'd share this with you as you might be interested:



DeMar is a volume guy.

To nobodies surprise.

I've been arguing his production is somewhere between Young and Crawford but I conceed that a Ellis/Gay split would be a good middle ground.

Oh and Gay's new contract is 13/14 mil per

Ellis signing in that 11/12 range

So DD in the 20+ range

Bye

Indeed. What this mean is he's probably more expendable than most are making out in here. They should flip him for something of value and let some foolish team foot the bill on his incredibly large next contract.

DeMar is the classic case of a player being overrated due to great opportunity. There are other guys in the league(or coming in soon) who are cheaper and can fill his shoes.

Overall I agree. But we don't need someone to necessarily fill his shoes. I would prefer a complimentary role player at the 2, and us utilize one of the best young centers in the league to help initiate the offense

if you trade demar and don't get a really good offensive player back, youre pretty much counting on lowry to create almost every shot

JV can do it. Would be better too going inside out. Easier/less dribbling/better shots created from it

[stooley]

JV can do it. Would be better too going inside out. Easier/less dribbling/better shots created from it

I wouldn't be super confident that he's at that level yet. It would definitely be a gamble.

[iblastoff]

I wouldn't be super confident that he's at that level yet. It would definitely be a gamble.

doesnt matter if hes at that level yet or not. he just needs the opportunity, much like demar did.

[stooley]

doesnt matter if hes at that level yet or not. he just needs the opportunity, much like demar did.

i guess so. no guarantee he lives up to what he's being billed as is what im saying though.

definite possibility you gut your team and totally blow the direction you've been trying to go in

[OldSkoolCool]

doesnt matter if hes at that level yet or not. he just needs the opportunity, much like demar did.

I think he would kill with the opportunity

[JWash]

To nobodies surprise.

I've been arguing his production is somewhere between Young and Crawford but I conceed that a Ellis/Gay split would be a good middle ground.

Oh and Gay's new contract is 13/14 mil per

Ellis signing in that 11/12 range

So DD in the 20+ range

Bye



Overall I agree. But we don't need someone to necessarily fill his shoes. I would prefer a complimentary role player at the 2, and us utilize one of the best young centers in the league to help initiate the offense



JV can do it. Would be better too going inside out. Easier/less dribbling/better shots created from it

Well at least you've gotten a little bit more realistic with DeMar. I would agree his production is around the Gay/Ellis level as well.

However

Gay got 13/14M in the current cap structure, which equates to about 18/19M under the new cap. I had suggested 18-20M for DeRozan as the area i'd be comfortable with spending so it falls in line quite nicely there. For the record Gay has an opt out for the 2017-18 season so he'd only play at that 13M deal for 1 year under the new cap. I also think Gay might've been able to get more on the open market if he waited to hit FA, but he took the extension imo to play it safe and fix his reputation after a very inefficient stint in Toronto.

Ellis got 4yr/44M (and the new cap very well might have been in mind when giving/getting that contract). However I consider Ellis' value to be lower than both DD and Gay's because he's severely undersized for the position and as a result can not defend the position effectively (he's pretty much just good at creating turnovers but man defense and team d is very poor-to-mediocre). On top of that he's already in his 30s which means most teams and GMs would consider him to be past his prime years.

I also agree that JV needs to be featured in the offense more, definitely. We need to establish him as a legitimate post presence down-low, and imo he has the skills to do it. I posted these stats before but last year in games where he took 10+ shots he averaged something like 17-11. However, in contrast to the tone in your post I don't think DeRozan is the one preventing him from getting those shots up, it's our perimeter-iso scheme in general.

[DanH]

Well at least you've gotten a little bit more realistic with DeMar. I would agree his production is around the Gay/Ellis level as well.

However

Gay got 13/14M in the current cap structure, which equates to about 18/19M under the new cap. I had suggested 18-20M for DeRozan as the area i'd be comfortable with spending so it falls in line quite nicely there. For the record Gay has an opt out for the 2017-18 season so he'd only play at that 13M deal for 1 year under the new cap. I also think Gay might've been able to get more on the open market if he waited to hit FA, but he took the extension imo to play it safe and fix his reputation after a very inefficient stint in Toronto.

Ellis got 4yr/44M (and the new cap very well might have been in mind when giving/getting that contract). However I consider Ellis' value to be lower than both DD and Gay's because he's severely undersized for the position and as a result can not defend the position effectively (he's pretty much just good at creating turnovers but man defense and team d is very poor-to-mediocre). On top of that he's already in his 30s which means most teams and GMs would consider him to be past his prime years.

I also agree that JV needs to be featured in the offense more, definitely. We need to establish him as a legitimate post presence down-low, and imo he has the skills to do it. I posted these stats before but last year in games where he took 10+ shots he averaged something like 17-11. However, in contrast to the tone in your post I don't think DeRozan is the one preventing him from getting those shots up, it's our perimeter-iso scheme in general.

The counter to that, of course, is that Gay was given his money by Sacramento, a front runner for the single worst run franchise in the NBA right now. Not exactly a shining beacon of what to do to be a successful NBA team.

[Puffer]

I think he would kill with the opportunity

I think he would kill FOR the opportunity

[JWash]

The counter to that, of course, is that Gay was given his money by Sacramento, a front runner for the single worst run franchise in the NBA right now. Not exactly a shining beacon of what to do to be a successful NBA team.

Touche but i haven't seen much negative reaction to that extension.

Poorly run teams can still make the occasional good decision, BC did draft JV and DD after all.

[OldSkoolCool]

The counter to that, of course, is that Gay was given his money by Sacramento, a front runner for the single worst run franchise in the NBA right now. Not exactly a shining beacon of what to do to be a successful NBA team.

I would also argue that Gay is better than DD because he is a better individual defender, and a better three point shooter

[JWash]

The DeRozan Free Agency Situation

I just wanted to make a separate thread for this since it has sort of become its own major issue within the whole Everything DeMar DeRozan thread. I just wanted to point something out that I thought was interesting.

DeRozan's extension that he got after his rookie contract for 10M per year started in the 2012-13 season where the salary cap was $58.044M. Meaning that his contract took up ~17.22% of the cap. At the time many Raptors fans thought this was a terrible contract, stating that DeRozan was worth more like 6-7M per year. However, the contract turned out to be a bargain.

We now face DeRozan's looming 3rd NBA contract. With many people fearing him getting a deal starting at the max with annual increases, most realists have settled on somewhere at ~18-20M being a more accurate projection of the money he might get on the open market (or perhaps from the Raptors at 12:01 on July 1st, 2016).

I want to point out that signing DeRozan for an 18-20M per year deal is basically no worse than the contract he was given after his rookie deal. This may be hard to believe but the numbers do check out.

At the end of the 2016-17 season, the cap is meant to increase to 108M. This means that a 20M contract would be worth less than 1/5 of the cap or to be more accurate, 18.5% of the cap. This would mean that DeRozan's 20M per year contract would only take up 1.3% more of the cap than his first extension did in year 1.

Now explain to me what there is to be so worried about?

[Katman]

We pay him the 25m asking price

[Axel]

He isn't good enough to warrant it.

[JWash]

I've been thinking about an argument that keeps being made by the "trade DD NOW" camp, and I've realized it makes no sense.

You guys are saying we need to trade him before we have to pay him in free agency and he becomes an albatross contract, yes? But then you also argue that DD will get offered big money by teams that strike out on first tier free agents next year, yes?

So if these GMs are willing to offer big money to DeRozan in the 2016 offseason, why would he suddenly become untradeable when the 2016-17 season starts? In fact, wouldn't he have more value considering that he would be locked up for 4-5 years, as opposed to the uncertainty of trading for an expiring UFA DD right now?

Anyone got an answer?