Everything Derozan

[special1]

The argument of many is that his value as perceived by GM's around the league (or at least some GM's) is far greater than his value to the team on the court, due to his all-star credentials, team USA selection, and high PPG average, and in spite of his less than stellar efficiency and defence. The reason we expect him to get overpaid is the same reason we expect him to have a decent trade return even in his final year.

If I thought he'd have no value in a trade, I wouldn't suggest trading him. He's no poison like Bargnani was, or Gay was (as he was used and as he fit). If his value is low, keep him and take the shot. But I don't believe that would be the case.

I think the counter argument by others is that it would be unlikely for us to receive a high lottery pick/get an all-star caliber player back for a one year rental of Demar.

Is Demar guaranteed to leave next year?

No.

Is it a guarantee that Masai can't re-sign him for good value next summer if he opts out?

No.

So why trade away our best player(my opinion)? Out of fear?

You don't trade someone because they have value.....You trade them if...

- You no longer want them on your team and feel like the return is just as good or better than the player (Rudy and Bargs)

- You feel that the player will not re-sign

If you like the player (as we do with Demar) and believe you can retain him (as I believe we do), then you have to take the risk.

I think the people who don't like Demar's game would like to see him gone sooner than later. They fail to understand why many fans, his coach, other coaches, Team USA, etc. actually see him as a really good player. They look at stats (especially advanced ones) and say he's not good enough. Trade him! They wanted him gone for years.....this just gives them more justication.

Something tells me management feels differently about Demar. I mean he's still here......



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[raptors999]

I think the counter argument by others is that it would be unlikely for us to receive a high lottery pick/get an all-star caliber player back for a one year rental of Demar.

Is Demar guaranteed to leave next year?

No.

Is it a guarantee that Masai can't re-sign him for good value next summer if he opts out?

No.

So why trade away our best player(my opinion)? Out of fear?

You don't trade someone because they have value.....You trade them if...

- You no longer want them on your team and feel like the return is just as good or better than the player (Rudy and Bargs)

- You feel that the player will not re-sign

If you like the player (as we do with Demar) and believe you can retain him (as I believe we do), then you have to take the risk.

I think the people who don't like Demar's game would like to see him gone sooner than later. They fail to understand why many fans, his coach, other coaches, Team USA, etc. actually see him as a really good player. They look at stats (especially advanced ones) and say he's not good enough. Trade him! They wanted him gone for years.....this just gives them more justication.

Something tells me management feels differently about Demar. I mean he's still here......



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demar has money, he should get the mole removed

[special1]

demar has money, he should get the mole removed

You add so much to these discussions......

/pink


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[raptors999]

You add so much to these discussions......

/pink


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demar takes lots of shitty shots, not news. if he didnt have another head growing out of his chin people would notice

[Scraptor]

Sometimes I wish there was a downvote button.

Couple things to add to the discussion: why would someone want a 1-year rental of DeMar? Aside from test-driving his fit and adding a player to help for a playoff run: Bird rights. That's one reason Minnesota netted Wiggins for Love.

DeMar's value also may be asymmetrical depending on the team; that's why a lot of trades get done. In our system, under Casey, a rival GM may perceive his value as stunted. Whereas in a different system under a different coach they see someone who could perform better.

Heck, if we had ditched Casey this summer I would actually be fine with gambling on keeping DeMar another year to see if there's any performance left to wring out of him. Then we would actually be re-signing him from a position of complete knowledge; either he lived up to max expectations, or the caveat that he might be better under a better coach would be removed, and he would be far more likely to command a contract worth matching.

Those who point to Lowry as a Masai gamble that worked: you're absolutely right. But keeping Lowry meant gambling on a cornerstone-type piece, at a price that was unlikely to jump into max territory due to timing and the abundance of PGs. Keeping DeMar means gambling on a complementary option, at a price that will likely jump into max territory due to the flood of cap space and scarcity at the 2-guard position.

[DanH]

I think the counter argument by others is that it would be unlikely for us to receive a high lottery pick/get an all-star caliber player back for a one year rental of Demar.

Is Demar guaranteed to leave next year?

No.

Is it a guarantee that Masai can't re-sign him for good value next summer if he opts out?

No.

So why trade away our best player(my opinion)? Out of fear?

You don't trade someone because they have value.....You trade them if...

- You no longer want them on your team and feel like the return is just as good or better than the player (Rudy and Bargs)

- You feel that the player will not re-sign

If you like the player (as we do with Demar) and believe you can retain him (as I believe we do), then you have to take the risk.

I think the people who don't like Demar's game would like to see him gone sooner than later. They fail to understand why many fans, his coach, other coaches, Team USA, etc. actually see him as a really good player. They look at stats (especially advanced ones) and say he's not good enough. Trade him! They wanted him gone for years.....this just gives them more justication.

Something tells me management feels differently about Demar. I mean he's still here......



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I think everyone is pretty clear that you don't trade him for garbage. You trade him for a good return. I think highly of his value around the league and think a good deal is out there. You don't?

[Axel]

Sometimes I wish there was a downvote button.

Couple things to add to the discussion: why would someone want a 1-year rental of DeMar? Aside from test-driving his fit and adding a player to help for a playoff run: Bird rights. That's one reason Minnesota netted Wiggins for Love.

DeMar's value also may be asymmetrical depending on the team; that's why a lot of trades get done. In our system, under Casey, a rival GM may perceive his value as stunted. Whereas in a different system under a different coach they see someone who could perform better.

Heck, if we had ditched Casey this summer I would actually be fine with gambling on keeping DeMar another year to see if there's any performance left to wring out of him. Then we would actually be re-signing him from a position of complete knowledge; either he lived up to max expectations, or the caveat that he might be better under a better coach would be removed, and he would be far more likely to command a contract worth matching.

Those who point to Lowry as a Masai gamble that worked: you're absolutely right. But keeping Lowry meant gambling on a cornerstone-type piece, at a price that was unlikely to jump into max territory due to timing and the abundance of PGs. Keeping DeMar means gambling on a complementary option, at a price that will likely jump into max territory due to the flood of cap space and scarcity at the 2-guard position.

Another good reason to have fired Casey. Hard to really gauge what Demar can do in a modern NBA offence.

[special1]

I think everyone is pretty clear that you don't trade him for garbage. You trade him for a good return. I think highly of his value around the league and think a good deal is out there. You don't?

I think highly of his value, which is why I don't want to trade him.

Also, I don't think we'd get equal/better in the return.


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[DanH]

I think highly of his value, which is why I don't want to trade him.

Also, I don't think we'd get equal/better in the return.


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Well, considering I do think we could get a very good return, I would suggest that my valuation of his trade value is more generous than yours. All it takes is one GM remember. And there's a half a league of desperate spurned GM's out there right now.

[Mindlessness]

Well, considering I do think we could get a very good return, I would suggest that my valuation of his trade value is more generous than yours. All it takes is one GM remember. And there's a half a league of desperate spurned GM's out there right now.

There's waaaaay more than 15. There's like millions.

Oh, wait, you mean actual GMs.

[Miekenstien]

Ok, I think I have it. The fear of not being able to sign demar or that his price will be too high is irrational but the fear that some posters believe we wont get an adequate return is prudent.

Savvy

[JimiCliff]

Well, considering I do think we could get a very good return, I would suggest that my valuation of his trade value is more generous than yours. All it takes is one GM remember. And there's a half a league of desperate spurned GM's out there right now.

Masai has to see this coming? Right?

[Superjudge]

Another good reason to have fired Casey.

How do you get super mod status with that kind of crazy talk????

[OldSkoolCool]

Because he may be only a one year rental...how little do you accept for him to move him?

I know my value is pretty low but a late teens pick + cap relief is mine.

At the end of the day it, depending on DD's popularity, his situation either becomes;
- we let him walk
- he is asking for too much money and got too much money
- we traded him for too little

Only one of those is an acceptable business move

[JWash]

Because he may be only a one year rental...how little do you accept for him to move him?

I know my value is pretty low but a late teens pick + cap relief is mine.

At the end of the day it, depending on DD's popularity, his situation either becomes;
- we let him walk
- he is asking for too much money and got too much money
- we traded him for too little

Only one of those is an acceptable business move

See to me this is stupid.

I can understand trading DeRozan for like Favors or something, if that happened tomorrow I'd be cool with it.

But trading him for a late teens pick? The potential value of that pick does not outweigh the potential gain we could've had from re-signing DD (even if you think the chance he signs a fair contract is low).

If that's all you can get for him you ride it out and hope you get a fair deal signed in the offseason. You could get a fucking late-teens pick in a sign and trade (see the Bosh deal).