Everything Derozan

[JWash]

why are you bringing up JV?

Back to Demar, some teams may feel that he is the piece that is missing to propel them to the playoffs, then because they retain the right to pay him the most money, and they win with him, that they would be more willing to pay him he ludicrous upcoming salary.

Using UTAH for the example, they have alot of lower valued contracts, they could add Demar and not handicap themselves capwise like we would.

Looking at
12 million Lowry
15 million Carrol
16 million JV(estimation)
25 million Demar
6 Million Ppat

thats a 75 million dollar lineup in an estimated cap of 90, with apparent extensions to Ross, a top 10 draft pick, a #20ish draft pick, Biyombo, Bebe, Bruno, Powell, Cujo, Wright,

There is no way on God's green earth that we're signing JV for a starting salary of 16M, unless it's part of taking a lot less to bring in KD (in which case DD would be doing the same thing) or the dude blows his ACL this season.

[planetmars]

Oh I definitely agree with you... In a vacuum I'd take Val on a max over DD on a max even if they were the same value (which they aren't, I know for pete's sake that JV's max is lower than DeMar's)... but the fact is he hasn't really earned a max contract or proven that he's a max player.

But let's just say hypothetically KD says he wants to sign with the Raps, but part of the reason is he wants to play with DD (which is far more likely than it being because of JV at this point because DD has way more cachet around the league.... that does not mean he's better... just has a better reputation). Then what do you do?

I'd fire Masai if we could get KD for 5 years. So holding on to DD in that scenario would be better.

[3inthekeon]

Demar's all-star and Team USA selections are public indicators of his overall market value (which includes defence).

Not quite sure where you get the idea an All-star selection has anything to do with defence.

[JWash]

I'd fire Masai if we could get KD for 5 years. So holding on to DD in that scenario would be better.

What what? Why would you fire Masai if we landed KD? I'm lost now

EDIT: Nvm I get what you're saying. You'd even give up Masai to get KD. I read that weirdly.

[planetmars]

This is all pie-in-the-sky but presumably you wouldn't be disappointed if we came back with Cory/DeMar/Durant/Carroll/Jonas, even with DeMar at 20, would you?

Lowry is a hard guy to trade since so many teams have locked up their PG. Even OKC has Westbrook on their roster and Lowry/RW doesn't make much sense as they both play similar styles.. so you'd have to start adding a 3rd team which starts making the transaction more difficult to complete.

[planetmars]

What what? Why would you fire Masai if we landed KD? I'm lost now

EDIT: Nvm I get what you're saying. You'd even give up Masai to get KD. I read that weirdly.

LOL.. yeah was trying to be funny.. even when I re-read what I wrote it looked weird.

[Snooch]

This is all pie-in-the-sky but presumably you wouldn't be disappointed if we came back with Cory/DeMar/Durant/Carroll/Jonas, even with DeMar at 20, would you?

Yes I would be, that is not a good lineup, Carrol cannot be a fulltime PF, imo I can see him filling a sg role fulltime before a pf role.

and we would, as of right now, be weak at pg.

[Snooch]

There is no way on God's green earth that we're signing JV for a starting salary of 16M, unless it's part of taking a lot less to bring in KD (in which case DD would be doing the same thing) or the dude blows his ACL this season.

cherry picking again, it said an estimate.

So add 3 million to it, we are even further above the cap by resigning demar and Demar takes 22 million.

Stil at a 75 million dollar starting lineup....

[mcHAPPY]

This is all pie-in-the-sky but presumably you wouldn't be disappointed if we came back with Cory/DeMar/Durant/Carroll/Jonas, even with DeMar at 20, would you?

Carroll does not have skill set or body type to bang at the 4.

Why would you want to take away one of league's best perimeter defenders to bang on the block and boards?

How about sending Lowry off to Utah in return for Favors? (side note: with Exum already bordering on bust and now an ACL tear and Burke not a starting PG and a desire to make the playoffs, maybe Utah sends out Favors for a PG?)

Cory/KD/DC/Favors/JV

Now THAT I would not be disappointed with.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

It's easy enough to package Lowry up with other great filler and prospects - Lowry + Some combo of (JJ + Patterson +Ross) + Knicks' pick + whatever looks like a pretty tasty return even for someone like KD, were he to tell OKC to trade him or lose him. However, the better play is simply shedding some salary to sign another big gun in 2016, using DeMar and Jonas's reasonable cap holds to do so - that could be Kyle again.

It's not easy to fill Lowry's shoes, but if you have another star joining ranks Cory and Delon look more than capable. Add that Nando's hold is only 1.8 mill and can be signed for more afterwards, point guard shouldn't be the issue that you'd think.

But now you're absolutely gutting the team in order to keep DeRozan, whose skillset is far from being ideal, in terms of complementing a new #1 option.

I'd rather keep Lowry, Carroll and Patterson than DeRozan, in terms of building a cohesive, balanced roster.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, and I have a bit of a bias about the new #1 being a wing, but I sort of see 2 primary options to choose from:

1. remove DeRozan from roster and keep role players and depth
2. keep DeRozan @ $20M+, gut roster of role/depth players, lose other assets (ie: combination of prospects & picks)

When I consider how that $20M+ is spent (ie: on DeRozan VS on multiple quality role players) and what the overall roster will look like and fit together, I just cant understand how #2 could be viewed as the preferred option in any objective way.

[JWash]

But now you're absolutely gutting the team in order to keep DeRozan, whose skillset are far from being ideal, in terms of complementing a new #1 option.

I'd rather keep Lowry, Carroll and Patterson than DeRozan, in terms of building a cohesive, balanced roster.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, and I have a bit of a bias about the new #1 being a wing, but I sort of see 2 primary options to choose from:

1. remove DeRozan from roster and keep role players and depth
2. keep DeRozan @ $20M+, gut roster of role/depth players, lose other assets (ie: combination of prospects & picks)

When I consider how that $20M+ is spent (ie: on DeRozan VS on multiple quality role players) and what the overall roster will look like and fit together, I just cant understand how #2 could be viewed as the preferred option in any objective way.

Dude we have a ton of prospects who can add depth to the roster. Between Delon, Bruno, Nogueira, Powell, and the 4 1st round picks over the next two years I don't see how we wouldn't be able to add depth that way as well. Or are all of these guys just going to be permanent fixtures in the d-league?

[Wild-ling#1]

so many stats...at a certain point you could cherry pick a data set and make it say whatever you want

"Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics", right? And as Primus says: No reason not to be optimistic at this point. We can tar and feather DD at some point in the future

[JWash]

One thing that has allowed the Spurs to always have deep teams, is that even though they pay a lot of money for their starters traditionally (it's only recently that TD and Manu have cost pennies), they have very cheap, but still extremely effective benches. Their bench usually consists primarily of guys on rookie deals, cheap vets or cheap guys who have been forgotten/ignored by other teams.

[Quirk]

all of that is very simple to grasp,

but what you are missing still, which has been the basis of the debate for the last couple of days is that

A) Demar is NOT and average defender, not matter how many times someone says it, analytics show that he IS NOT.

b) Demar as a secondary through 5th starter is not a role that his best traits are suited for

c) Demar at 24-27 million dollars is FAR TOO EXPENSIVE to fill that role of #2-whatever.

That is what people have a hard time getting.

Not sure what you imagine you are disagreeing with. None of that contradicts what I said. I never said he is ideally suited as a fifth starter, just that few teams have five starters that are all above average, so I could live with DeMare being the 5th highest paid member of the team, having the 5th highest usage rate and the fifth most court time. It would like it even more if we had a better 5th man, but wouldn't be too worried about it under these conditions.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Dude we have a ton of prospects who can add depth to the roster. Between Delon, Bruno, Nogueira, Powell, and the 4 1st round picks over the next two years I don't see how we wouldn't be able to add depth that way as well. Or are all of these guys just going to be permanent fixtures in the d-league?

I meant mainly as rounding out the starting lineup and primary 7-9 man rotation.

I believe that Lowry, Carroll, Patterson, JV, Ross, and Joseph are all better fits alongside the mythical new #1 option, than DeRozan would be. I'm not suggesting any/all of them are better players than DeRozan, but rather in terms of possessing high-quality complimentary skillsets.

It's also a discussion about how the $20M+ can be most effectively spent. Would you rather pay an ill-fitting #2 that much money, or use it to sign a couple quality complimentary pieces? Opportunity cost is a huge factor for me.

Given the skillset and salary, I don't believe DeRozan is worth the money he'll command, in order to be a #2 option.