Everything Derozan

[SkywalkerAC]

But now you're absolutely gutting the team in order to keep DeRozan, whose skillset is far from being ideal, in terms of complementing a new #1 option.

I'd rather keep Lowry, Carroll and Patterson than DeRozan, in terms of building a cohesive, balanced roster.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, and I have a bit of a bias about the new #1 being a wing, but I sort of see 2 primary options to choose from:

1. remove DeRozan from roster and keep role players and depth
2. keep DeRozan @ $20M+, gut roster of role/depth players, lose other assets (ie: combination of prospects & picks)

When I consider how that $20M+ is spent (ie: on DeRozan VS on multiple quality role players) and what the overall roster will look like and fit together, I just cant understand how #2 could be viewed as the preferred option in any objective way.

Stocking up on role players isn't all that difficult when you have a team as deep as we are. Consolidation is what is called for, as we'd still be left with plenty of prospects - Powell, BeBe, Bruno, etc. - either way, but especially if we could make it happen in free agency. Complimentary pieces we either have, or can obtain with little difficulty.

And maybe it is DeMar that's moved with tasty filler because we have Ross and Powell at that spot. Who knows. Either way, consolidation is a viable way forward depending on how things look.

[Snooch]

"For the record", as they say, I did not nearly suggest that Dan's views were "unsupported".

I misread that part of your original post, I appologize for that.

Demar's all-star and Team USA selections are public indicators of his overall market value (which includes defence).

Since when the fuck have Allstars been selected on their defensive prowess? And they add absolutely NOTHING to their players value. NOTHING! Yao was getting into the allstar game when he couldnt even walk up the court. Vince got in when he missed half the games, Allstar games are for fan appreciation and hold ZERO value. I

DD and KL, together, form part of a quite highly regarded "back-court". Generally, it's our "front-court" that has been singled out as most in need of development/improvement or recruitment.

Yes, that is true about our front court, but the same things have been preached about our back court, less about lowry but there has been ALOT in discussion by us, Canadian media, American media about demar's shortcomings as n our apparent #1 guy.

The Simpsons are a satirical comedy about the foibles of human nature. Most can see ourselves lampooned there from time-to-time. Maybe have a look. It's been quite popular.

I know what the Simpsons are, if I want to talk about them I will go to a forum discussing their particular brand of "satirical comedy"

"Yes" you can say that "People want to play for the Raptors cause Mike Holmes is an awesome guy and lives near toronto" (and imply that's as relevant as DD's league profile). ... Go ahead, if you like. Email Harden or KD.

I wouldn't do that because it's as fucking stupid as implying that KD would want to come here because Demar is such a good guy. You can say that line I posted was a "satirical Comedy"

But I say you are dodging my essential points. "Cherry picking" and "Spinning", if you will.

"To each his own", they say.

You have yet to make any point. at all. with of course the two times i spoke directly to the assertion you made about being how being Allstar selection being a valid barometer of his market value, which of course you failed to support

So I fail to understand how I can skirted around that.

[SkywalkerAC]

I meant mainly as rounding out the starting lineup and primary 7-9 man rotation.

I believe that Lowry, Carroll, Patterson, JV, Ross, and Joseph are all better fits alongside the mythical new #1 option, than DeRozan would be. I'm not suggesting any/all of them are better players than DeRozan, but rather in terms of possessing high-quality complimentary skillsets.

It's also a discussion about how the $20M+ can be most effectively spent. Would you rather pay an ill-fitting #2 that much money, or use it to sign a couple quality complimentary pieces? Opportunity cost is a huge factor for me.

Given the skillset and salary, I don't believe DeRozan is worth the money he'll command, in order to be a #2 option.

You don't think KD would choose to go into battle with DeMar over Ross?

[raptors999]

You don't think KD would choose to go into battle with DeMar over Ross?

Why would he play the 3 next to Ross instead of the 2 next to Carroll?

[CalgaryRapsFan]

You don't think KD would choose to go into battle with DeMar over Ross?

The question isn't DD VS Ross, but rather DD VS whoever had to go in order to acquire the new #1. If it means losing Carroll, Lowry or Patterson, let alone additional prospects/picks, then keeping DeRozan isn't worth it, even if he is better than Ross straight-up.

[Snooch]

Stocking up on role players isn't all that difficult when you have a team as deep as we are. Consolidation is what is called for, as we'd still be left with plenty of prospects - Powell, BeBe, Bruno, etc. - either way, but especially if we could make it happen in free agency. Complimentary pieces we either have, or can obtain with little difficulty.

And maybe it is DeMar that's moved with tasty filler because we have Ross and Powell at that spot. Who knows. Either way, consolidation is a viable way forward depending on how things look.

from a financial standpoint it is easier to consolidate many small pieces into one larger pieces, than it is to try and add small pieces into a maxed out team.

When you only have small amounts to spend you can easily miss out on alot of primary choices and be left scraping the bottom of the barrell.

But then there is option of consolidating nto one major asset, then trading a secondary major asset into many smaller ones.

[Wild-ling#1]

But now you're absolutely gutting the team in order to keep DeRozan, whose skillset is far from being ideal, in terms of complementing a new #1 option.

I'd rather keep Lowry, Carroll and Patterson than DeRozan, in terms of building a cohesive, balanced roster.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, and I have a bit of a bias about the new #1 being a wing, but I sort of see 2 primary options to choose from:

1. remove DeRozan from roster and keep role players and depth
2. keep DeRozan @ $20M+, gut roster of role/depth players, lose other assets (ie: combination of prospects & picks)

When I consider how that $20M+ is spent (ie: on DeRozan VS on multiple quality role players) and what the overall roster will look like and fit together, I just cant understand how #2 could be viewed as the preferred option in any objective way.

I credit LeBron with bringing a new sense of self-respect, and appreciation for how much control players can have over their own destiny. I'm a union-guy ... what can I say ...

On many assignments, I think you have to be right about your no. 1 and 2 options. But if Demar, Kyle and JV decide they want to "make a run" here, I think they can make it happen (with Masai's help). We're not San Antonio, obviously ... but that doesn't mean we can't try to emulate their vibe and kind of roster success. With the locker-room chemistry, the draft picks, and bubbling "buzz" around the city, we may be able to assemble a roster that doesn't quite yet seem possible.

It's why I think that this season (and off-season) - Vince and CB4 and others notwithstanding - may be the most important in the franchise's history ... And why I'm suspending judgment about what is - or isn't - possible ....

[Snooch]

Dude we have a ton of prospects who can add depth to the roster. Between Delon, Bruno, Nogueira, Powell, and the 4 1st round picks over the next two years I don't see how we wouldn't be able to add depth that way as well. Or are all of these guys just going to be permanent fixtures in the d-league?

that is not championship depth.

How would Lebron do with that as his bench, would he win a chip?

who is your sixth man there...a very import piece to any championship team. Delon Wright? Bruno who is 4 years away?

[JWash]

Another question I'd like to ask is if we don't have DeRozan, what do you guys even pitch to KD or any other elite-tier free agent? I know many here think DD isn't any good, but players around the NBA view him as our star. If KD wants to come here I don't see how you sell him on replacing the perceived best player on the team as opposed to playing with him. KD appears to be a guy that's big on loyalty as well, and siphoning off a guy who's been repping the team since day one for what will be 7 seasons in 2016 would probably not sit well with him.

Just my opinion. I don't see how telling KD "Hey you can come play with Lowry, DeMarre and Valanciunas" gets him out of OKC or even away from other potential suitors.

[SkywalkerAC]

I credit LeBron with bringing a new sense of self-respect, and appreciation for how much control players can have over their own destiny. I'm a union-guy ... what can I say ...

On many assignments, i think you have to be right about your no. 1 and 2 options. But if Demar, Kyle AND JV decide they want to "make a run", I think it can happen. We're not San Antonio, obviously ... but that doesn't mean we can't try to emulate their vibe and kind of roster success. With the locker-room chemistry, the draft picks, and bubbling "buzz" around the city, we may be able to assemble a roster that doesn't quite yet seem possible.

It's why I think that this season (and off-season) - Vince and CB4 and others notwithstanding - may be the most important in the franchise's history ... And why I'm suspending judgment about what is - or isn't - possible ....

Here here. While emulating San Antonio would suggest pay cuts, which may be unrealistic for young stars trying to secure what could be their lone big pay day, I do think that DeMar and Jonas will take 'fair' offers (e.g. 20 for DD, 16.5 for Jonas) and wait for the opportune time to do so (from the team's POV), as Middleton did with the Bucks this year. We can afford to have these guys on sub-max deals if we are really 'going for it' because we'd have the ability to add a class free agent in 2016 and then fill up with the team with cheap vets and youngsters.

We're well-positioned to pay both these guys AND get better.

[raptors999]

I credit LeBron with bringing a new sense of self-respect, and appreciation for how much control players can have over their own destiny. I'm a union-guy ... what can I say ...

On many assignments, I think you have to be right about your no. 1 and 2 options. But if Demar, Kyle and JV decide they want to "make a run" here, I think they make it happen (with Masai's help. . We're not San Antonio, obviously ... but that doesn't mean we can't try to emulate their vibe and kind of roster success. With the locker-room chemistry, the draft picks, and bubbling "buzz" around the city, we may be able to assemble a roster that doesn't quite yet seem possible.

It's why I think that this season (and off-season) - Vince and CB4 and others notwithstanding - may be the most important in the franchise's history ... And why I'm suspending judgment about what is - or isn't - possible ....

Think next season will be disappointing. A .500 team with no direction either offensively or defensively. MU really screwed up regarding Casey and regardless of how well Norman Powell does, good drafting doesn't justify a completely wasted year

[Snooch]

You don't think KD would choose to go into battle with DeMar over Ross?

that is NOT what anyone is saying.

Would KD choose to go into battle with

Cujo/Wright
Demar/Powell
KD/Bruno
Carroll/Scola
JV/Biyombo

or

Lowry/Cujo/Wright
KD/Ross/Powell
Caroll/JJ/Bruno
Ppat/Scola/FA
JV/Biyombo/Bebe

and still some picks......

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I credit LeBron with bringing a new sense of self-respect, and appreciation for how much control players can have over their own destiny. I'm a union-guy ... what can I say ...

On many assignments, I think you have to be right about your no. 1 and 2 options. But if Demar, Kyle and JV decide they want to "make a run" here, I think they can make it happen (with Masai's help). We're not San Antonio, obviously ... but that doesn't mean we can't try to emulate their vibe and kind of roster success. With the locker-room chemistry, the draft picks, and bubbling "buzz" around the city, we may be able to assemble a roster that doesn't quite yet seem possible.

It's why I think that this season (and off-season) - Vince and CB4 and others notwithstanding - may be the most important in the franchise's history ... And why I'm suspending judgment about what is - or isn't - possible ....

Given the salary cap, it's pretty straightforward to determine what is or isn't possible.

The conversation is really a discussion about the pros/cons related to the types of moves that would be required to make the impossible (ie: acquiring a new #1 option) possible.

All the other superfluous fluff (akin to Krusty's 3rd nipple, to carry forward your previous metaphor) is meaningless in a salary-cap driven reality.

[Snooch]

I credit LeBron with bringing a new sense of self-respect, and appreciation for how much control players can have over their own destiny. I'm a union-guy ... what can I say ...

On many assignments, I think you have to be right about your no. 1 and 2 options. But if Demar, Kyle and JV decide they want to "make a run" here, I think they can make it happen (with Masai's help). We're not San Antonio, obviously ... but that doesn't mean we can't try to emulate their vibe and kind of roster success. With the locker-room chemistry, the draft picks, and bubbling "buzz" around the city, we may be able to assemble a roster that doesn't quite yet seem possible.

It's why I think that this season (and off-season) - Vince and CB4 and others notwithstanding - may be the most important in the franchise's history ... And why I'm suspending judgment about what is - or isn't - possible ....

we cannot even poor mans emulate San antonio.

[Snooch]

Another question I'd like to ask is if we don't have DeRozan, what do you guys even pitch to KD or any other elite-tier free agent? I know many here think DD isn't any good, but players around the NBA view him as our star. If KD wants to come here I don't see how you sell him on replacing the perceived best player on the team as opposed to playing with him. KD appears to be a guy that's big on loyalty as well, and siphoning off a guy who's been repping the team since day one for what will be 7 seasons in 2016 would probably not sit well with him.

Just my opinion. I don't see how telling KD "Hey you can come play with Lowry, DeMarre and Valanciunas" gets him out of OKC or even away from other potential suitors.

For starters MONEY

secondly, a great 3 and d player who is one of the best in the game at it.

A top 5 point guard/allstar

A young and rapidly improving Center

Very solid Depth

Lots of picks upcoming

Great management

Unbelievable city

Out of the Western Conference.

Face of the franchise with a rabid fanbase just like his childhood hero.