Everything Derozan

[JWash]

Have a look back through the thread I can't be bothered to rehash the same old arguments

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[Axel]

Have a look back through the thread I can't be bothered to rehash the same old arguments

Hahahahaha good one.

[JWash]

Hahahahaha good one.

Thanks

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Yeah there actually is.

No there isn't. Otherwise it wouldn't be considered "bad".

The only argument you've made is about the need for the #1 option to be a constant shooting threat, by taking a large volume of shots. I agree with your rationale about the 'need' for a #1 option to take shots and to establish his own game, but I disagree with your inference that forcing bad shots should be a part of the execution of a #1 option's duties.

If anything, a #1 option forcing bad shots is playing right into the hands of the defense. If you remember the infamous Golden State game, they wanted to let DeRozan take as many 'bad' shots as he wanted, since they were low % shots. In addition to decreasing the likelihood of DeRozan scoring, there was also the opportunity cost of avoiding better, higher % shots from the rest of the Raptors, which could potentially let one of them get a hot hand, while also allowing DeRozan to have more room to operate (the ironic twist of shooting less and/or only taking 'good' shots that DeRozan doesn't seem capable of grasping).

I've yet to see any legitimate justification for taking numerous 'bad' shots, by you or anyone else (though you're the only one seemingly pushing that game plan).

[JWash]

No there isn't. Otherwise it wouldn't be considered "bad".

The only argument you've made is about the need for the #1 option to be a constant shooting threat, by taking a large volume of shots. I agree with your rationale about the 'need' for a #1 option to take shots and to establish his own game, but I disagree with your inference that forcing bad shots should be a part of the execution of a #1 option's duties.

If anything, a #1 option forcing bad shots is playing right into the hands of the defense. If you remember the infamous Golden State game, they wanted to let DeRozan take as many 'bad' shots as he wanted, since they were low % shots. In addition to decreasing the likelihood of DeRozan scoring, there was also the opportunity cost of avoiding better, higher % shots from the rest of the Raptors, which could potentially let one of them get a hot hand, while also allowing DeRozan to have more room to operate (the ironic twist of shooting less and/or only taking 'good' shots that DeRozan doesn't seem capable of grasping).

I've yet to see any legitimate justification for taking numerous 'bad' shots, by you or anyone else (though you're the only one seemingly pushing that game plan).

I disagree, I really think there is a legitimate justification. It's something that's been discussed in here before, don't really want to bother with explaining it again. It's somewhere in here if you search for it.

Oh and btw Golden State won the title last season. We played sub .500 ball for half the year so getting blown to smithereens by them wasn't really much of a shock. They also smacked the crap out of us earlier in the year when DD wasn't playing

[Mr.Z]

I disagree, I really think there is a legitimate justification. It's something that's been discussed in here before, don't really want to bother with explaining it again. It's somewhere in here if you search for it.

So somewhere in this thread there is someone's completely unapproved rationalization of bad shots? ... I can't imagine when anyone finds it (if they care enough to look) that it's gonna change their perspective.

[JWash]

So somewhere in this thread there is someone's completely unapproved rationalization of bad shots? ... I can't imagine when anyone finds it (if they care enough to look) that it's gonna change their perspective.

I also explained it earlier. You'll be hard-pressed to find a number one option that doesn't take bad shots (at the end of the shot clock or otherwise, doesn't really matter). Some guys like Harden or LeBron take less of these shots because they are more talented than DeRozan. But at DD's talent level it's kind of expected that he's going to force up some bad ones. Which is also why his efficiency isn't as good as it could be.

Maybe if we had a coaching gameplan that emphasized movement more like Atlanta's, that would happen less... but we don't. If you watch our games there is often times very little happening off the ball. Playing basketball, I know that if I have possession of the ball and there's nothing happening off-ball, sometimes I'm just going to have to create a look for myself, especially if I'm the main guy.

If I'm extremely talented I can often create a good shot in this circumstances, but if I'm not as talented, most of the time I'm going to have to force up a tougher one. And sometimes just "swinging it to a teammate" results in an even worse player having to take just as difficult of a shot.

[Just Is]

I also explained it earlier. You'll be hard-pressed to find a number one option that doesn't take bad shots (at the end of the shot clock or otherwise, doesn't really matter). Some guys like Harden or LeBron take less of these shots because they are more talented than DeRozan. But at DD's talent level it's kind of expected that he's going to force up some bad ones. Which is also why his efficiency isn't as good as it could be.

Maybe if we had a coaching gameplan that emphasized movement more like Atlanta's, that would happen less... but we don't. If you watch our games there is often times very little happening off the ball. Playing basketball, I know that if I have possession of the ball and there's nothing happening off-ball, sometimes I'm just going to have to create a look for myself, especially if I'm the main guy.

If I'm extremely talented I can often create a good shot in this circumstances, but if I'm not as talented, most of the time I'm going to have to force up a tougher one. And sometimes just "swinging it to a teammate" results in an even worse player having to take just as difficult of a shot.

Wouldn't the better option here be to...not take those shots? If the argument is that more talented players don't take that shot.

I mean, I can see your other points here but it only further shows how little actual justification there is for them. If you're ever forcing up a tough shot, it should be the result of either the shot clock or the other option being a turnover.

I'd actually chalk it up to game plan/Casey if not for DeRozan outright saying he preferred them.

[MACK11]

The excuses never stop

[JWash]

Wouldn't the better option here be to...not take those shots? If the argument is that more talented players don't take that shot.

I mean, I can see your other points here but it only further shows how little actual justification there is for them. If you're ever forcing up a tough shot, it should be the result of either the shot clock or the other option being a turnover.

I'd actually chalk it up to game plan/Casey if not for DeRozan outright saying he preferred them.

Nah I think you misunderstood me there. Players like Harden/LeBron when stuck in those one on one situations, can create a better shot than DeRozan can because of their talent level. That was my point.

And DeRozan saying he prefers those kind of shots is just displaying the confidence/cockiness that top players at this level are supposed to have. He's not going to come out and say "I should never take tough shots because I can't make them", he's going to say something that shows he's confident in his abilities as a player. I think if you looked at the circumstances he grew up in and the kind of mental fortitude it takes to become great out of those circumstances, it might make more sense to you that he'd say something like that.

Or I mean, we can just pretend that DeRozan actually thinks a contested, tough shot is easier than an open one.

[JWash]

The excuses never stop

Not making excuses, just observations and analyses.

[mcHAPPY]

10,000 posts peeps!

Give yourself a round of applause!!!

[Axel]

So somewhere in this thread there is someone's completely unapproved rationalization of bad shots? ... I can't imagine when anyone finds it (if they care enough to look) that it's gonna change their perspective.

According to 5 pages of posts found using advanced search of this thread, no posts with "shot selection" would provide any justification. Lots of "shot selection" needs improvement though.

[BS10]

DD, the most popular and most talked about raptor of all time.

[mcHAPPY]

DD, the most popular and most talked about raptor of all time.

Nope.

Bargnani still holding down the fort on that 'honour'.

10,630 posts
1,646,135 views

to DeRozan's

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