Everything Derozan

[Axel]

CoJo is not going to start at 2-guard long-term. People here have been vehement about not playing DeMarre Carroll long-term at the 4 spot ("You signed him to be a 3+D wing so let him be a 3+D wing") in the situation that we were able to sign Durant and keep DeMar, saying that he was undersized; but now we're ok with an undersized CoJo playing the 2 spot because he'd displace DeMar. I'm not really liking this double standard.

Powell and Ross have shown absolutely nothing to indicate that they are competition for DeMar. Ross is currently not even playing like an NBA player.

Double standard? Not really, Cojo has proven that he can be effective at both spots. Carroll had never played PF well in his career and was a free agent signing addressing the issue of perimeter defence, so putting him inside made no sense. It's not a double standard, it's simply accepting that things are determined on a case by case basis.

[Axel]

Means less to our wins than Lowry not some vague "others" and possibly JV as well now that he's getting 30+mpg. Nobody else.

Carroll's defence will be more important to winning than DD's offence.

CoJo could be more important in the SG role since he can defend both guard spots and play offence both on and off the ball.

In terms of WS48, Demar is already ranked behind Lowry, JV and CoJo this season. Carroll has struggled with his shot, but when the games get tough, he becomes more important.

Demar was the lowest ranked of these 5 last year and is the only one who has consistently been below 0.1 in his career (career avg of 0.085).

[DanH]

I very much doubt that Masai has made up his mind already. We have 60+ games (plus playoffs) to see what he can consistently bring to the team this year, and what other in-house options can bring. Powell, CoJo, Ross all offer in-house competition for the starting SG spot. Plus Bruno, Wright could impact the rotation too.

If this team plays poorly in the playoffs again, can't see Masai bringing back the band.

Masai's calling card is asset retention. Since letting DD walk will (unless there's a massive team-changing trade before free agency) only gain him about 15M in cap room at cost of most of the Raptors' depth, I expect him to re-sign DeMar. He didn't actually want NeNe on his team in Denver, after all - but he signed him anyway. Keep assets, trade assets. Only exception is when you get significant cap room, and 15M in a world where half of all teams have max cap room is not "significant."

[Axel]

Masai's calling card is asset retention. Since letting DD walk will (unless there's a massive team-changing trade before free agency) only gain him about 15M in cap room at cost of most of the Raptors' depth, I expect him to re-sign DeMar. He didn't actually want NeNe on his team in Denver, after all - but he signed him anyway. Keep assets, trade assets. Only exception is when you get significant cap room, and 15M in a world where half of all teams have max cap room is not "significant."

I don't see how retaining DD at $20M if he can't produce wins in the playoffs is a good move. Retaining assets quickly becomes treadmill if significant changes aren't made. Masai won't make a move for the sake of it, thankfully he's got the rest of the season and the playoffs to decide; point being, I doubt he's made up his mind on anything.

[JWash]

I don't see how retaining DD at $20M if he can't produce wins in the playoffs is a good move. Retaining assets quickly becomes treadmill if significant changes aren't made. Masai won't make a move for the sake of it, thankfully he's got the rest of the season and the playoffs to decide; point being, I doubt he's made up his mind on anything.

The team hasn't show the ability to produce wins in the playoffs. That's not solely on DeRozan. There are other guys who have not performed to standard in the postseason, as well as a coach who has been completely out-maneuvered by Jason Kidd and Randy Wittman in consecutive years.

(P.S. DanH didn't say it was a good move btw, in fact he said "I personally hate it")

Yes retaining assets can be and will be treadmill if no moves are made, but the hope is that later on you can package some of your assets to take a step later on. We would have just as little flexibility if we let DeRozan walk and signed a role player for 15M as if we signed DeRozan for 20M per year. And the reality is that on that deal DeRozan would most likely still have greater trade value because many teams around the league still place a significant value on scoring the ball especially if you have some semblance of an all-around game (which DD does raw-statistically speaking putting up 20-4-4 the past 3 years).

Idk why some think that letting DD walk is the solution to all our problems. The reality is this team is devoid of superstar talent. Maybe if you were advocating blowing up the roster entirely to tank for a superstar that might make more sense. But just letting an asset walk free for no reason doesn't. Even if you absolutely hate DD with every fiber of your being. The reality is that in lieu of signing a superstar (which I've always said I'd gladly let DD go for) we're only getting one via trade. A re-signed DD could be part of a package (see Kevin Martin in the Harden trade), or if we traded other assets for a star SG, he could become expendable and be used in a deal to fill another hole.

You're looking for a quick fix to something that doesn't have one. The Raptors currently sit at the wall that stands in the way of many teams' paths to going from good team to championship contender, and that is a superstar acquisition. Without that we're "treadmilling" either way.

[Snooch]

I see MAssai moving Demar by deadline before Signing him then trading him later on.....unless there is some sort of wink wink sign and trade planned

[JWash]

I see MAssai moving Demar by deadline before Signing him then trading him later on.....unless there is some sort of wink wink sign and trade planned

Isn't that kind of a contradiction with your sig? Should probably update it to 40ish more games.

[Snooch]

The team hasn't show the ability to produce wins in the playoffs. That's not solely on DeRozan. There are other guys who have not performed to standard in the postseason, as well as a coach who has been completely out-maneuvered by Jason Kidd and Randy Wittman in consecutive years.

(P.S. DanH didn't say it was a good move btw, in fact he said "I personally hate it")

Yes retaining assets can be and will be treadmill if no moves are made, but the hope is that later on you can package some of your assets to take a step later on. We would have just as little flexibility if we let DeRozan walk and signed a role player for 15M as if we signed DeRozan for 20M per year. And the reality is that on that deal DeRozan would most likely still have greater trade value because many teams around the league still place a significant value on scoring the ball especially if you have some semblance of an all-around game (which DD does raw-statistically speaking putting up 20-4-4 the past 3 years).

Idk why some think that letting DD walk is the solution to all our problems. The reality is this team is devoid of superstar talent. Maybe if you were advocating blowing up the roster entirely to tank for a superstar that might make more sense. But just letting an asset walk free for no reason doesn't. Even if you absolutely hate DD with every fiber of your being. The reality is that in lieu of signing a superstar (which I've always said I'd gladly let DD go for) we're only getting one via trade. A re-signed DD could be part of a package (see Kevin Martin in the Harden trade), or if we traded other assets for a star SG, he could become expendable and be used in a deal to fill another hole.

You're looking for a quick fix to something that doesn't have one. The Raptors currently sit at the wall that stands in the way of many teams' paths to going from good team to championship contender, and that is a superstar acquisition. Without that we're "treadmilling" either way.

First off, I dont think anyone is saying that letting him walk is neccessarily the "top option"

Even those who want to chase after Durant or Horford would agree that moving Demar NOW for expiring and an asset would be a far more beneficial move in the long run.

[Snooch]

Isn't that kind of a contradiction with your sig? Should probably update it to 40ish more games.

oooooohhhhhhh....good one.

[Axel]

The team hasn't show the ability to produce wins in the playoffs.

Idk why some think that letting DD walk is the solution to all our problems.

You're looking for a quick fix to something that doesn't have one.

And keeping the same team together after those failures will result in the same result. Demar is a main piece of that failure.

To your other points, no one has said quick fix or solve all the problems, so don't try and create false points to argue.

[Axel]

(P.S. DanH didn't say it was a good move btw, in fact he said "I personally hate it")

.

Also I'm well aware of what Dan wrote. I never insinuated that Dan thought it was a good move but felt that Masai wouldn't make the move because it isn't a good one based on current evidence.

Perhaps you should stick to defending your own points and not worry about others. Dan's a big boy and speaks for himself quite well.

[special1]

Everything Demar Derozan - New Poll!

I don't see how retaining DD at $20M if he can't produce wins in the playoffs is a good move. Retaining assets quickly becomes treadmill if significant changes aren't made. Masai won't make a move for the sake of it, thankfully he's got the rest of the season and the playoffs to decide; point being, I doubt he's made up his mind on anything.

We re-signed JV and Ross for a combined 27 million per year and they didn't produce any wins in the playoffs either.....lol

I don't think Masai made up his mind on anything. For all we know Ross, JV and Demar will be gone before next season.

I do agree with DanH and JWash in that I think Demar re-signs for around 20 million. I've been saying this for a long time. I don't believe Demar gets a max contract.

People forget that Masai will sign a player and trade him shortly thereafter. It's nothing. Also, he can trade and get value for anybody....Bargnani and Gay (and likely Ross lol) should prove this.




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[JWash]

We re-signed JV and Ross for a combined 27 million per year and they didn't produce any wins in the playoffs either.....lol

I don't think Masai made up his mind on anything. For all we know Ross, JV and Demar will be gone before next season.

I do agree with DanH and JWash in that I think Demar re-signs for around 20 million. I've been saying this for a long time. I don't believe Demar gets a max contract.

People forget that Masai will sign a player and trade him shortly thereafter. It's nothing. Also, he can trade and get value for anybody....Bargnani and Gay (and likely Ross lol) should prove this.




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Yeah this looks like the most likely course of action.

[Axel]

I don't think Masai made up his mind on anything.

Which was my point in response to Dan's post.

[JWash]

Which was my point in response to Dan's post.

I don't think anyone said Masai has made up his mind though, just that most likely that's what's going to happen.

We were having this reverse conversation in the off-season when some were saying that most likely Masai is going to let DD walk in order to free up cap space for max level players. "If KD is the plan, DeMar is gone" something to that effect.