Everything Derozan

[raptors999]

Agreed. Good thing ISO isn't called 40% of the time with Demar.

He is tasked with attacking the basket, creating his own shot, and attacking his man off the dribble, but an actual "Isolation" play really isn't called that often. Honestly, pretty sure I've seen more Iso's called for Lowry this year than Demar.

Raptors fans only call it ISO because there is zero chance of a pass. Instead of flattening Casey "stations" guys at the three point line, with X's in practice, so they dont move. Demars pass to CoJo surprised everyone. Don't think Wiz even thought that would happen because CoJo was really open

[Snooch]

Agreed. Good thing ISO isn't called 40% of the time with Demar.

He is tasked with attacking the basket, creating his own shot, and attacking his man off the dribble, but an actual "Isolation" play really isn't called that often. Honestly, pretty sure I've seen more Iso's called for Lowry this year than Demar.

back to the isolation vs. one on one play

[Axel]

DeMar can play off the ball.. he's shown it in the past. Playing off the ball is not just spotting up for three point looks.

When?

DD has never really been asked to produce off ball since Bosh left

[JWash]

When?

DD has never really been asked to produce off ball since Bosh left

So isn't this the problem?

[Joey]

When?

DD has never really been asked to produce off ball since Bosh left

And that's absolutely a fair point to make ... but how do we go from "Demar doesn't have the skillset to play off ball" to "Demar hasn't been asked to play off-ball". I'd say those are two massively different distinctions to be made. But saying the latter is true doesn't necessarily make the former true as well.

[JWash]

And that's absolutely a fair point to make ... but how do we go from "Demar doesn't have the skillset to play off ball" to "Demar hasn't been asked to play off-ball". I'd say those are two massively different distinctions to be made. But saying the latter is true doesn't necessarily make the former true as well.

Hate to bring my boy JV into this, but it'd be like saying "Jonas doesn't have the skillset to play in the late stages of the 4th quarter" since Casey never had him play in those moments before this year.

[Snooch]

Yup. I think Rip Hamilton and Richard Jefferson are two good examples to look at. Two wings with similar skillsets to DeRozan who were able to do a ton of damage off ball despite not taking very many 3 point shots. Both guys were getting assisted on high 60s% to low 70s% of their 2PT attempts during the best years of their careers. DeRozan is at 31% this season and was in the 40s% the 2 years prior to this one, and he was only ever in the range those guys were at during his rookie year.

Again I think DeRozan could be deployed differently and be made much more effective while still putting up significant scoring numbers. Using DD primarily in isolation sets is not the best way to maximize his skillset. With a guy who excels at drawing fouls and finishing at the rim, you want him catching the ball on the move in or just outside of the paint, not creating something out of nothing from 25 feet. Could also be utilized in high post sets, for corner 3s as I mentioned before as well as P&R/iso sets on occasion when he has a switch to create a match-up advantage.

NBA isn't exclusively reserved for superstars, cutters and 3PT shooters. There are so many other skillsets on offense that can be used to create an effective team.

the Hamilton and derozan comparisons really need to stop. the only, and i mean only, thing they had in common wa a proencity to shoot midrange.....

Difference is Rip shot from 16-18 feet....demar from20.

and richard jefferson? Did you even watch jefferson play? cause they are very very differnt players.


you want to compare...look at magette and look at ricky pierce, look at JErry Stackhouse, maybe even a little bit of stacy augman.


but richard jefferon??????


JEfferon shot 37% from three for his career. had only 2 seasons at the beginning of his career that were down in demar territory for 3pt% and was a career 46.5% from 2....56% ts% for career.

and averaged around 20 , 7 boards, and 4 assits during his best seasons.

Jefferson is WAY better than demar, at everything, other that hogging usage and getting to the line

[raptors999]

And that's absolutely a fair point to make ... but how do we go from "Demar doesn't have the skillset to play off ball" to "Demar hasn't been asked to play off-ball". I'd say those are two massively different distinctions to be made.

Triano had Demar playing SG( kinda poorly ) but that ship has sailed. Who know what Demar would have become just taking his midrange shots off the catch instead of the dribble. Too drunk to think of midrange catch and shot guys who are successful today who aren't PF

[Snooch]

And that's absolutely a fair point to make ... but how do we go from "Demar doesn't have the skillset to play off ball" to "Demar hasn't been asked to play off-ball". I'd say those are two massively different distinctions to be made. But saying the latter is true doesn't necessarily make the former true as well.

does demar have a great catch and shoot game?

Does he even have footwork or form that would lend one to believe that its possible?

Cause to play off the ball those have got to be a couple of assets you need to have.

or of course be 7 feet tall..

[Joey]

does demar have a great catch and shoot game?

Does he even have footwork or form that would lend one to believe that its possible?

Cause to play off the ball those have got to be a couple of assets you need to have.

or of course be 7 feet tall..

Maybe Carroll will teach him. I heard somewhere that he just picked it up and learned from one of the best. Haha

[raptors999]

does demar have a great catch and shoot game?

Does he even have footwork or form that would lend one to believe that its possible?

Cause to play off the ball those have got to be a couple of assets you need to have.

or of course be 7 feet tall..

I think 2012-13 was his turning point where his catch and shoot was just slightly worse but still improving. Shit hit the fan 2014 when he gave up even trying

[CalgaryRapsFan]

And that's absolutely a fair point to make ... but how do we go from "Demar doesn't have the skillset to play off ball" to "Demar hasn't been asked to play off-ball". I'd say those are two massively different distinctions to be made. But saying the latter is true doesn't necessarily make the former true as well.

#firecasey and find out? lol

[Joey]

#firecasey and find out? lol

I don't know why we can't all agree this is VERY comfortable common ground for us all to sit on. Lol

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I don't know why we can't all agree this is VERY comfortable ground for us all to sit on. Lol

Likely because finding out could cost $20M+ per season, in addition to the opportunity cost of how else that cap space could potentially be spent.

DeRozan and his contract situation is yet another reason why it made so much sense to fire Casey after last season's playoff debacle.

Back when Gay's future was up in the air (player option for $19M+), MU traded him at least partially to take control of the situation and give himself more certainty, for future planning purposes. I'm guessing that DeRozan's people have already told MU that he'll be opting-out, so that there is no uncertainty.

[Axel]

And that's absolutely a fair point to make ... but how do we go from "Demar doesn't have the skillset to play off ball" to "Demar hasn't been asked to play off-ball". I'd say those are two massively different distinctions to be made. But saying the latter is true doesn't necessarily make the former true as well.

Well unless Demar honed those off ball skills at Walmart and the Drew league, they aren't developed, therefore they likely don't exist (at an NBA level).

Being similar in body and stats as R Jeff or Rip doesn't mean he can actually replicate what they did on the court. Rip had excellent foot work and form off screens because he developed those skills for years in the NBA. Sorry if I don't believe that Demar can suddenly turn on a switch and become a totally different player when he has spent his entire life developing his game after the most on-ball player of his generation (Kobe).

Again, people are underestimating the time it takes to develop those off ball skills.