Everything Derozan

[A.I]

What a game by Demar. I am now comfortable paying him the max.

Then he goes on to shoot 5-19 next game.

[Wild-ling#1]

What a game by Demar. I am now comfortable paying him the max.

Sarcasm?

[Primer]

In my mind, all roster decisions flow from the coaching decision. We have to get rid of Casey, then discuss with the new coach what he wants to do. I think DD would be really good in a movement based offense that puts emphasis on assists and getting high percentage shots, not the iso heavy offense that puts emphasis on taking very difficult shots. When you see a player like Carroll, who has been great on offense the past 3 seasons, reduced to a terrible offensive player, you have to look at the system. This system has destroyed the offensive games of everyone who can't create their own shot in isolation. We're tied for 27th in the league in assists. Let's see where the Conference Finals teams of last year are in assists this season (Since ECF is where we wanna be)

1. Golden State Warriors (1st in assists)
2. Houston Rockets (16th in assists)
3. Atlanta Hawks (2nd in assists)
4. Cleveland Cavaliers (9th in assists)

They ended last season
1. Golden State Warriors (1st in Assists)
2. Cleveland Cavaliers (10th in Assists)
3. Atlanta Hawks (2nd in Assists)
4. Houston Rockets (9th in Assists)

So, the only team that has dropped off this year from last year is Houston, and by coincidence their assist rate has fallen out of the top 10. All of the top teams have a ton of assists, and we won't be a top team until we get a coach that makes assists a priority.

[Wild-ling#1]

In my mind, all roster decisions flow from the coaching decision. We have to get rid of Casey, then discuss with the new coach what he wants to do. I think DD would be really good in a movement based offense that puts emphasis on assists and getting high percentage shots, not the iso heavy offense that puts emphasis on taking very difficult shots. When you see a player like Carroll, who has been great on offense the past 3 seasons, reduced to a terrible offensive player, you have to look at the system. ...

Doesn't this send us into a vicious debate circle, though?

We hear Casey saying exactly the same thing after certain games. And see DeMar making an effort to alter his game ...

But tough to get assists with Ross and Patterson playing as they are and Bismack on the floor as much as he is now, right? It's been said that we weren't excelling in this area before JV went down ... but TR and PP have been sub-par all season ... and it's early days still.

Maybe you're right. I can't actually deny it. But ... well, I've said my piece, I guess.

[Primer]

Doesn't this send us into a vicious debate circle, though?

We hear Casey saying exactly the same thing after certain games. And see DeMar making an effort to alter his game ...

But tough to get assists with Ross and Patterson playing as they are and Bismack on the floor as much as he is now, right? It's been said that we weren't excelling in this area before JV went down ... but TR and PP have been sub-par all season ... and it's early days still.

Maybe you're right. I can't actually deny it. But ... well, I've said my piece, I guess.

We have better personnel than the majority of NBA teams, yet every year under Casey we're at the very bottom assist wise. You can turn all of Ross and Patterson's misses into assists and we still don't sniff the top 10.

[Axel]

Doesn't this send us into a vicious debate circle, though?

We hear Casey saying exactly the same thing after certain games. And see DeMar making an effort to alter his game ...

But tough to get assists with Ross and Patterson playing as they are and Bismack on the floor as much as he is now, right? It's been said that we weren't excelling in this area before JV went down ... but TR and PP have been sub-par all season ... and it's early days still.

Maybe you're right. I can't actually deny it. But ... well, I've said my piece, I guess.

This has been disproven. We rank at the bottom in potential assists as well, so it can't be blamed on guys missing shots.

http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post551846

[Jangles]

Sarcasm?

lol, I thought it was more obvious

[Wild-ling#1]

We have better personnel than the majority of NBA teams, yet every year under Casey we're at the very bottom assist wise. You can turn all of Ross and Patterson's misses into assists and we still don't sniff the top 10.

It's not just the misses, it's the "he-won't-shoot-if I-do-pass-it-to-him" issues, too. And I don't know how they could factor the fact (oft complained of) that "we're playing 4-on-5 on offense with Biyombo on the floor" (with others being double-teamed, as well) into the "assists"/"potential assists" stats. But maybe they can.

Anyway, it's a very big question and issue - involving systems and personnel (and possibly an evolving offense, new players and injuries). As I said, Casey seems to agree with you publicly. But I've raised a few points - I'm going to "step out" of this here.

[Snooch]

In my mind, all roster decisions flow from the coaching decision. We have to get rid of Casey, then discuss with the new coach what he wants to do. I think DD would be really good in a movement based offense that puts emphasis on assists and getting high percentage shots, not the iso heavy offense that puts emphasis on taking very difficult shots. When you see a player like Carroll, who has been great on offense the past 3 seasons, reduced to a terrible offensive player, you have to look at the system. This system has destroyed the offensive games of everyone who can't create their own shot in isolation. We're tied for 27th in the league in assists. Let's see where the Conference Finals teams of last year are in assists this season (Since ECF is where we wanna be)

1. Golden State Warriors (1st in assists)
2. Houston Rockets (16th in assists)
3. Atlanta Hawks (2nd in assists)
4. Cleveland Cavaliers (9th in assists)

They ended last season
1. Golden State Warriors (1st in Assists)
2. Cleveland Cavaliers (10th in Assists)
3. Atlanta Hawks (2nd in Assists)
4. Houston Rockets (9th in Assists)

So, the only team that has dropped off this year from last year is Houston, and by coincidence their assist rate has fallen out of the top 10. All of the top teams have a ton of assists, and we won't be a top team until we get a coach that makes assists a priority.

getting that to keep demar in a system such as you described would mean first signing demar to a large, very large, most likely max or very close, in a hope that he can excell even more in said system

I dont think he can at all, and most advanced metrics show that he can't.

And I think if Masai for one second thought that he would have changed coach a long time ago to maximize his "star player" and improve the team. I do not think a new coach or new playing style will improve demar, and it certainly isnt worth the risk at signing him long term big money to find out that it doesnt.

[CNinja26]

Question: If you were hired as the Raptors' coach, how would you make Demar effective given his current game and his potential? (This scenario assumes Masai gives him a contract and Casey is gone)

I'm struggling to figure out how to manage him. I feel like if there's an answer to this question, then there's an argument for extending his contract.

[S.R.]

Even Jack Armstrong was harping on the lack of ball movement, the iso play, and the tough shots in the first half of the GSW game.

[Joey]

getting that to keep demar in a system such as you described would mean first signing demar to a large, very large, most likely max or very close, in a hope that he can excell even more in said system.

Well which is it...
a) Large
b) Very Large
c) Very Close to Max
d) Max ("most likely"?)

You just listed 4 different options as if they were all the same one, when only the 1st can really be confirmed, and stated as anything more than pure speculation. Demar will get a Large Contract offer; that is accurate and fair to say. What "Large" actually equates to, we haven't the slightest idea, so anything else is complete and utter speculation.

[Primer]

getting that to keep demar in a system such as you described would mean first signing demar to a large, very large, most likely max or very close, in a hope that he can excell even more in said system

I dont think he can at all, and most advanced metrics show that he can't.

And I think if Masai for one second thought that he would have changed coach a long time ago to maximize his "star player" and improve the team. I do not think a new coach or new playing style will improve demar, and it certainly isnt worth the risk at signing him long term big money to find out that it doesnt.

You can't just let Demar walk for nothing though. That's the worst asset management possible. You resign him and then look to trade him now that he's locked up long term. He's still on pace for 8+ win shares, which means he's worth $20+M under the new cap. I have faith Masai could get the deal even lower. For instance, I think he got a steal on the JV contract extension. Maybe Charlotte will want to participate in a sign and trade with us where they get DD and we get Batum? Resigning Demar lets us get good players here with gutting the team and then hoping a FA will still want to sign here.

[Snooch]

Well which is it...
a) Large
b) Very Large
c) Very Close to Max
d) Max ("most likely"?)

You just listed 4 different options as if they were all the same one, when only the 1st can really be confirmed, and stated as anything more than pure speculation. Demar will get a Large Contract offer; that is accurate and fair to say. What "Large" actually equates to, we haven't the slightest idea, so anything else is complete and utter speculation.

I do not think, at all, that there is anyway Demar is signing less than 19 million per. most likely will be 20.

And those, although typed oddly, were just a continued though on the size of his contract, not really 4 different levels. Seeing how there have been multiple reports linking to Demars Camp that he will be seeking the max deal, I would have to lean on that being the amount he expects to receive.

[Snooch]

You can't just let Demar walk for nothing though. That's the worst asset management possible. You resign him and then look to trade him now that he's locked up long term. He's still on pace for 8+ win shares, which means he's worth $20+M under the new cap. I have faith Masai could get the deal even lower. For instance, I think he got a steal on the JV contract extension. Maybe Charlotte will want to participate in a sign and trade with us where they get DD and we get Batum? Resigning Demar lets us get good players here with gutting the team and then hoping a FA will still want to sign here.

Absolutely not.

That is why I have been all for trading him, or at worst case, a sign and trade with someone(although I think return on a sign and trade would involve a bad contract...whereas trading now would probably net an expiring and a young asset)

and his current win share is 2.1

I would not call that "on pace for 8"