Everything Derozan

[Snooch]

DD does nothing but play offense, his playmaking/decision making has improved, but his defense and 3 point shooting has not, just because of those 2 weaknesses I don't see him being a starter on a championship level team. Which is why 20M for him is overpay.

No true!


His DRPM is as good as Klays.

demar is definately an above average defender.

[Joey]

I havent said he sucks

I debated against certain posts that where, I deemed, Incorrect.

so basically, everything posted about Demar must be taken as absolute fact now?

not allowed a difference of opinion?

Like Fuck man...

If someone claims that a player is one of the best in the league at something, and they aren't, that is something not allowed to be debated against?

that hate or trolling or whatever?


And I am not the only person who does it...you just feel a need to single out me because I no doubt speak the loudest.

I'm not singling you out though, and I apologize if it feels that way. You basically single yourself out by "no doubt speaking the loudest". You're the only one in here responding to every post with something negative about Derozan.

And simply saying "Demar is a product of the system" again isn't really a "valid counter", when the point being made was to show how his FG% is up pretty significantly for the month. Why can't we just allow that factual stat.

My point was simply that we are running in circles with this debate and the exact same points are brought up on a daily basis just worded differently. People are getting tired of it.

But whatever...lets all be happy with our little rose cloured glasses and forget past failures of the team and all sit around and hold our nuts while we gloss over all advanced statistics that show that the team we love is running on a treadmill that is only going to start spinning faster and faster and faster while the legs get more tired and more tired.


Or we can just blame casey and ross.

what do you want.....Blame casey or pretend everything is awesome

But again, you speak as if people don't recognize that Demar isn't perfect. We get that he's flawed. Doesn't mean people can't enjoy it when he plays a great game.

[Nilanka]

The way we're playing right now forces Lowry to play a ton of demanding minutes. The same type of minutes that saw him wear down last year and be a much less effective player at the end of the season into the playoffs. We need to let Lowry take less of a load, or we won't win in the playoffs.

Unfortunately, right now, because of DeMar's limitations, we can't give Lowry nights off or we'll lose the division and because of the parity in the east we might even miss the playoffs.

And it's not just Lowry's high minutes. It's his high minutes plus his somewhat reckless style of play. His body takes a beating every night. He hits the ground hard on basically every drive. It's almost guaranteed that his production will drop as the season goes on.

FWIW, I'm not complaining about Lowry's game (I actually love his pitbull/streetball game). Just making an observation.

[Barolt]

Joey, I enjoy it when he plays a great game. While enjoying that, can't I still express concern about where we might be headed if we pay him $20+mil next year?

[Barolt]

And it's not just Lowry's high minutes. It's his high minutes plus his somewhat reckless style of play. His body takes a beating every night. He hits the ground hard on basically every drive. It's almost guaranteed that his production will drop as the season goes on.

FWIW, I'm not complaining about Lowry's game (I actually love his pitbull/streetball game). Just making an observation.

I agree with you 100%. While I love Lowry's game and work ethic, I really worry about the toll it takes as the season grinds on. If DeMar could be relied upon to take over more often and let Lowry take nights, or even quarters, off we'd be much better off. But I don't see that happening and it's a big part of why I don't think DeMar's a $20mil guy.

[Joey]

Joey, I enjoy it when he plays a great game. While enjoying that, can't I still express concern about where we might be headed if we pay him $20+mil next year?

You absolutely can Barolt. Please just understand that this debate has been on-going for a LONG time now, and while you may be fresh to the conversation, we've been moderating it for well over a year now. Lol

Personally, I think too much is being made of the $20M+ stuff, considering we really have no idea what he will be paid, and that worse players on worse contracts, have been traded in the past.

[The Great One]

Personally, I think too much is being made of the $20M+ stuff, considering we really have no idea what he will be paid, and that worse players on worse contracts, have been traded in the past.

DeMarre Carroll is making 15mill/year. DeMarre freaking Carroll. If he's worth that much then what's DeRozan's worth? my guess is he'll get around 18-20mill. He's a whole lot better player than Carroll.

[JWash]

DeMarre Carroll is making 15mill/year. DeMarre freaking Carroll. If he's worth that much then what's DeRozan's worth? my guess is he'll get around 18-20mill. He's a whole lot better player than Carroll.

[Barolt]

You absolutely can Barolt. Please just understand that this debate has been on-going for a LONG time now, and while you may be fresh to the conversation, we've been moderating it for well over a year now. Lol

Personally, I think too much is being made of the $20M+ stuff, considering we really have no idea what he will be paid, and that worse players on worse contracts, have been traded in the past.

Do you really see DeMar making less than $20 mil? The league traditionally overpays for high usage guards, and overlooks efficiency stats. There's a ton of examples of this historically. With the cap moving upwards I could easily see a team with a demoralized fanbase throwing a huge offer at DeMar. If things go this way, I'd rather we let him walk and use that money to sign one or more guys who'll play better within a system, and encourage a pace and space style offense. I feel like most of the players on our team, with the exception of DeMar, would shine within this type of system.

[Joey]

Do you really see DeMar making less than $20 mil? The league traditionally overpays for high usage guards, and overlooks efficiency stats. There's a ton of examples of this historically. With the cap moving upwards I could easily see a team with a demoralized fanbase throwing a huge offer at DeMar. If things go this way, I'd rather we let him walk and use that money to sign one or more guys who'll play better within a system, and encourage a pace and space style offense. I feel like most of the players on our team, with the exception of DeMar, would shine within this type of system.

And I don't necessarily disagree with this actually (depending on who those guys are..).
But yes, I could definitely see Demar signing for $17M-18M. Which I would be fine with.

[Barolt]

DeMarre Carroll is making 15mill/year. DeMarre freaking Carroll. If he's worth that much then what's DeRozan's worth? my guess is he'll get around 18-20mill. He's a whole lot better player than Carroll.

The thing about Carroll is that he's a plus defender who had a TS% of .603 last year. The qualifier is that he's a great spot up shooter who had a huge percentage of his field goals coming off assists last year.

He was a bad signing for us, but he's probably worth $15 mil to the right team. The reason he's a bad fit on our team is that he's great when assisted, but we as a team are terrible at generating assisted field goals. One of the worst teams in the league at this.

But, just because we overpaid Carroll, how does that mean we should overpay DeMar? Do 2 wrongs make a right?

[JWash]

Do you really see DeMar making less than $20 mil? The league traditionally overpays for high usage guards, and overlooks efficiency stats. There's a ton of examples of this historically. With the cap moving upwards I could easily see a team with a demoralized fanbase throwing a huge offer at DeMar. If things go this way, I'd rather we let him walk and use that money to sign one or more guys who'll play better within a system, and encourage a pace and space style offense. I feel like most of the players on our team, with the exception of DeMar, would shine within this type of system.

FWIW high usage guards haven't been getting paid much recently. It's the 3+D guys that have been making bank.

Last year DeMarre Carroll got 4yr/60M, Wesley Matthews got 4yr/$70M coming off a major injury. Meanwhile Monta got 4yr/$44M, Lou got 3yr/$21M, etc.

DeRozan is going to get paid but I'd bet money that a guy like Batum is going to get paid a lot more.

[Joey]

DeMarre Carroll is making 15mill/year. DeMarre freaking Carroll. If he's worth that much then what's DeRozan's worth? my guess is he'll get around 18-20mill. He's a whole lot better player than Carroll.

I think that depends on what you value. Defense and 3-point shooting are highly sought after traits, that are very valuable around the league, and both of which Demar is not held in a high regard.

[Chr1s1anL]

The way we're playing right now forces Lowry to play a ton of demanding minutes. The same type of minutes that saw him wear down last year and be a much less effective player at the end of the season into the playoffs. We need to let Lowry take less of a load, or we won't win in the playoffs.

Unfortunately, right now, because of DeMar's limitations, we can't give Lowry nights off or we'll lose the division and because of the parity in the east we might even miss the playoffs.

The reason we can't pull back Lowry's minutes is cause Ross has been terrible. If Ross could be consistent we would be able to lower both DD's and Lowry's minutes. Also Lowry is in the best shape of his career. He even said the reason why he changed his body was to be able to do this all year round. We have two starters out in a very competitive East. We can't afford to rest either DD or Lowry.

[Barolt]

The reason we can't pull back Lowry's minutes is cause Ross has been terrible. If Ross could be consistent we would be able to lower both DD's and Lowry's minutes. Also Lowry is in the best shape of his career. He even said the reason why he changed his body was to be able to do this all year round. We have two starters out in a very competitive East. We can't afford to rest either DD or Lowry.

I disagree on Ross. I just think a lot of the fanbase doesn't understand who he is. Ross is at his best when he can play defense and play within the flow of the offense. He's not a shot creator. The last 2 games have been what I want from Ross. When he was feeling it against the Lakers, he took over and had an efficient night scoring 22. When other guys were feeling it against the Spurs he let them take over, only took 6 shots, and focused on playing good defense. Let Ross be who he is and he's a strong asset IMO.