Everything Derozan

[Axel]

Once again, to reiterate some contract possibilities for clarity of discussion.

DeRozan's max if he signs in Toronto: 25.1M, 27.0M, 28.9M, 30.8M, 32.7M -> 144.6M over 5 years, 28.9M per year.
DeRozan's max if he signs elsewhere: 25.1M, 26.3M, 27.4M, 28.5M -> 107.4M over 4 years, 26.8M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 20M: 20.0M, 20.9M, 21.8M, 22.7M -> 85.4M over 4 years, 21.4M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 15M: 15.0M, 15.7M, 16.4M, 17.0M -> 64.1M over 4 years, 16.0M per year.

So note that the max is nearly twice annually what I and others have proposed, and about 25-35% more than the ~20M suggestion offered by many.

Thanks. Do all options allow for player ETO?

[Wild-ling#1]

Once again, to reiterate some contract possibilities for clarity of discussion.

DeRozan's max if he signs in Toronto: 25.1M, 27.0M, 28.9M, 30.8M, 32.7M -> 144.6M over 5 years, 28.9M per year.
DeRozan's max if he signs elsewhere: 25.1M, 26.3M, 27.4M, 28.5M -> 107.4M over 4 years, 26.8M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 20M: 20.0M, 20.9M, 21.8M, 22.7M -> 85.4M over 4 years, 21.4M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 15M: 15.0M, 15.7M, 16.4M, 17.0M -> 64.1M over 4 years, 16.0M per year.

So note that the max is nearly twice annually what I and others have proposed, and about 25-35% more than the ~20M suggestion offered by many.

Thanks. (sigh of relief).

Is it too much to ask to add a "starting at $22M" line, Dan?

(and are the increments automatic - can they sculpt a deal where he doesn't hit (say) $30+M (possibly in a year when there's no significant cap growth)?

[DanH]

Thanks. Do all options allow for player ETO?

Any contract longer than 3 years can have an ETO, team option or player option (but only one option total) at the end of it.

[DanH]

Thanks. (sigh of relief).

Is it too much to ask to add a "starting at $22M" line, Dan?

(and are the increments automatic - can they sculpt a deal where he doesn't hit (say) $30+M (possibly in a year when there's no significant cap growth)?

4-year starting at 22M: 22.0M, 23.0M, 24.0M, 25.0M -> 93.9M over 4 years, 23.5M per year.

And I've quoted maximum increases - the increases can be as large as what I've put, but you can do no increases or any increase between 0 and the amount I've put in - or even decreases down to the amount I've put in (for example, the 20M starting salary has a max raise of 900k per year - that is also the maximum decrease per year). So to answer the 30M question - he could accept lower raises in one or more years to avoid the 30M number, but it would mean less overall money - they can't put bigger raises earlier in the contract and lower ones later to keep the total the same.

[JWash]

The latter is almost pretty damn close to max. Not much of a negotiated "discount".

$20-22M (per year) is nowhere near the max. Over 5 years (with Toronto) it would be like $35-$45M less money.

[Axel]

$20-22M (per year) is nowhere near the max. Over 5 years (with Toronto) it would be like $35-$45M less money.

Thanks. An hour later than Dan but thanks for the effort.

[Wild-ling#1]

Once again, to reiterate some contract possibilities for clarity of discussion.

DeRozan's max if he signs in Toronto: 25.1M, 27.0M, 28.9M, 30.8M, 32.7M -> 144.6M over 5 years, 28.9M per year.
DeRozan's max if he signs elsewhere: 25.1M, 26.3M, 27.4M, 28.5M -> 107.4M over 4 years, 26.8M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 20M: 20.0M, 20.9M, 21.8M, 22.7M -> 85.4M over 4 years, 21.4M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 15M: 15.0M, 15.7M, 16.4M, 17.0M -> 64.1M over 4 years, 16.0M per year.

So note that the max is nearly twice annually what I and others have proposed, and about 25-35% more than the ~20M suggestion offered by many.

4-year starting at 22M: 22.0M, 23.0M, 24.0M, 25.0M -> 93.9M over 4 years, 23.5M per year.

And I've quoted maximum increases - the increases can be as large as what I've put, but you can do no increases or any increase between 0 and the amount I've put in - or even decreases down to the amount I've put in .... but .... they can't put bigger raises earlier in the contract and lower ones later to keep the total the same.

Jesus. More in the neighborhood of $50M-60M down from his true "max". I think I may have to revise my view of what Masai can get done, here.

... which means, I'll concede, that the "DeMar's not worth the max!" refrain seems more salient.

What's the rationale behind their not being able to extend him (at whatever they see fit) now, I wonder? Perception being such a big part of reality, I could see him accepting a $20 - 22M contract at some point before someone throws $144M dollars his way ... but not so much after ...

Shit.

[Axel]

Everything Terrence Ross

What's the rationale behind their not being able to extend him (at whatever they see fit) now, I wonder? Perception being such a big part of reality, I could see him accepting a $20 - 22M contract at some point before someone throws $144M dollars his way ... but not so much after ...

Shit.

They can't give him a raise in an extension that would be competitive with free market. Extension raises are set by %s, so his would be something like $12M.

[planetmars]

Once again, to reiterate some contract possibilities for clarity of discussion.

DeRozan's max if he signs in Toronto: 25.1M, 27.0M, 28.9M, 30.8M, 32.7M -> 144.6M over 5 years, 28.9M per year.
DeRozan's max if he signs elsewhere: 25.1M, 26.3M, 27.4M, 28.5M -> 107.4M over 4 years, 26.8M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 20M: 20.0M, 20.9M, 21.8M, 22.7M -> 85.4M over 4 years, 21.4M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 15M: 15.0M, 15.7M, 16.4M, 17.0M -> 64.1M over 4 years, 16.0M per year.

So note that the max is nearly twice annually what I and others have proposed, and about 25-35% more than the ~20M suggestion offered by many.

Can someone punt this to the cap thread (or at least the DD thread) so that we don't lose this?

[Wild-ling#1]

Can it be put at the top of one of the threads or something?

[DanH]

For reference:

DeRozan's max if he signs in Toronto: 25.1M, 27.0M, 28.9M, 30.8M, 32.7M -> 144.6M over 5 years, 28.9M per year.
DeRozan's max if he signs elsewhere: 25.1M, 26.3M, 27.4M, 28.5M -> 107.4M over 4 years, 26.8M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 22M: 22.0M, 23.0M, 24.0M, 25.0M -> 93.9M over 4 years, 23.5M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 20M: 20.0M, 20.9M, 21.8M, 22.7M -> 85.4M over 4 years, 21.4M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 15M: 15.0M, 15.7M, 16.4M, 17.0M -> 64.1M over 4 years, 16.0M per year.

[Axel]

Can someone punt this to the cap thread (or at least the DD thread) so that we don't lose this?

I'll move it around later. Too hard to do on the phone.

[DanH]

Jesus. More in the neighborhood of $50M-60M down from his true "max". I think I may have to revise my view of what Masai can get done, here.

... which means, I'll concede, that the "DeMar's not worth the max!" refrain seems more salient.

What's the rationale behind their not being able to extend him (at whatever they see fit) now, I wonder? Perception being such a big part of reality, I could see him accepting a $20 - 22M contract at some point before someone throws $144M dollars his way ... but not so much after ...

Shit.

Veteran extensions are limited to 4 years (including the current year) at 7.5% raises, and must include the same incentives (about 6% of DD's salary is currently tied up in incentives). So we could offer him 3 additional years (assuming he opts out of his player option, which he would) at 10.9M, 11.6M, and 12.4M (with only 10.2, 10.9 and 11.6M guaranteed salary) for a total of 3 years, 34.8M (with 2M of that tied up in incentives). Looking at his other options, you can see why Masai described the conversation as a non-starter earlier this year.

[DanH]

I'll move it around later. Too hard to do on the phone.

I posted a summary over there for reference later. But I can pull up those numbers anytime.

[Wild-ling#1]

Veteran extensions are limited to 4 years (including the current year) at 7.5% raises, and must include the same incentives (about 6% of DD's salary is currently tied up in incentives). So we could offer him 3 additional years (assuming he opts out of his player option, which he would) at 10.9M, 11.6M, and 12.4M (with only 10.2, 10.9 and 11.6M guaranteed salary) for a total of 3 years, 34.8M (with 2M of that tied up in incentives). Looking at his other options, you can see why Masai described the conversation as a non-starter earlier this year.

Yes .... but why the limitation?

(Actually, I guess it's obvious - part of the attempt to keep salaries under control, in a cap world. But ... with how he's playing this year, I'd sure like to be able to offer him the $20M (+/-) now.)

(But thanks again for the numbers - we were really "at sea" without them.)