Everything Derozan

[Axel]

Batum is going to get paid just as much if not MORE than DeRozan this offseason. Considering he checks the 3PT shooting box that the league is enamored with, fills up the boxscore and is around the same age is DD.

You're not getting him off Charlotte unless you're paying upwards of 20M to the Max (like DD).

Before the season maybe but now Batum is going to get max likely. I'd rather him than DD.

[JWash]

He'd probably be the best option at starting PF if he were on this team right now.

Fit and skill sets, it's not a straight up this player vs that player situation.

He doesn't improve the team so what's the actual point? Plus Marvin is making 7M right now he's going to cost upwards of $10M per year at least and possibly a lot more if he plays well in the playoffs.

This 2 for 1 argument honestly doesn't fly. You're locking yourself into just as much long-term salary as you would be by signing DeRozan and not improving the team. Additionally you're spending the money on role players who will likely have next to no residual value in a trade for the life of their deal. I just don't see the point at all.

People are talking about not wanting to re-sign DeRozan because it would fuck our flexibility, then suggesting using the flexibility we'd get from not re-signing DeRozan on mediocre players that get us nowhere.

EDIT: This isn't Rudy Gay who was chucking to his heart's content on a bad contract and had serious conflict with both Lowry and DeMar on the court. DeRozan is playing at an all-star level right now, I cannot imagine a situation in which Masai lets him walk to sign Aaron Affalo and Marvin Williams (just an example, not meant to be taken as the only option or literally). If Durant or Horford is on the table (assuming they'd be cool with jettisoning DD instead of looking for an alternative --- unlikely imo but that's a different debate), then sure. But not for +30 role players who do nothing to make us better.

Like what threshold are we trying to hit here? We're already a ~50 win team. Swapping out DD for 3+D and rebounding isn't going to push us to 60 and a conference final. The talent isn't there.

[Axel]

He doesn't improve the team so what's the actual point? Plus Marvin is making 7M right now he's going to cost upwards of $10M per year at least and possibly a lot more if he plays well in the playoffs.

This 2 for 1 argument honestly doesn't fly. You're locking yourself into just as much long-term salary as you would be by signing DeRozan and not improving the team.

Disagree that Marvin starting at PF doesn't make this team better. His shooting and rebounding would help a lot.

And who said anything about locking in to long term? Players are more likely to accept short term deals to hit multiple free agency periods during the cap jump. A 2 yr deal should satisfy both sides of the table. Marvin at $11M + a SG at $12M is attainable at the same or less total than DD.

[JWash]

Disagree that Marvin starting at PF doesn't make this team better. His shooting and rebounding would help a lot.

And who said anything about locking in to long term? Players are more likely to accept short term deals to hit multiple free agency periods during the cap jump. A 2 yr deal should satisfy both sides of the table. Marvin at $11M + a SG at $12M is attainable at the same or less total than DD.

Letting DD walk and signing 2 fringe starters isn't going to make the team better I'm sorry to say. DD's not the one holding us back from title contention, a lack of a superstar and competent coaching is.

Oh also btw, Masai demonstrated last year that he's willing to move away non-core players to secure a free agent. We pursued Wesley Matthews when we didn't have enough cap space to actually sign him which meant someone like 2Pat was going to have to be moved (DD was actively involved in recruiting so it obviously wasn't him).

If it comes down to going after Durant I expect guys like Ross, Carroll, 2Pat etc to be shipped off before allowing DD to walk.

[Axel]

Letting DD walk and signing 2 fringe starters isn't going to make the team better I'm sorry to say. DD's not the one holding us back from title contention, a lack of a superstar and competent coaching is.

Oh also btw, Masai demonstrated last year that he's willing to move away non-core players to secure a free agent. We pursued Wesley Matthews when we didn't have enough cap space to actually sign him which meant someone like 2Pat was going to have to be moved (DD was actively involved in recruiting so it obviously wasn't him).

If it comes down to going after Durant I expect guys like Ross, Carroll, 2Pat etc to be shipped off before allowing DD to walk.

If Durant is going to sign, then whatever he wants is what happens.

But if we don't sign him (which is much more likely), then we have to choose to paying DD or using the money elsewhere. You seem convinced that DD will offer a discount, and are unwilling to even consider any other possibility. But discount is less likely than finding 2 players to sign and improve the team and frankly, finding value targets is something that can be done now while arguing how much of a discount DD may offer is completely a waste of time.

[Snooch]

They're actually already both making ~20M combined right now. Faried is signed till 18-19 at ~12M per year though but Afflalo might hit 8 figures in the offseason.

But it's a grass is greener move, doesn't make us better (imo it makes us worse), pretty pointless if you ask me.

makes us better (imo sustainably better) and far from pretty pointless if you ask me.

[Snooch]

Marvin Williams is as mediocre as it gets. He's not standout in any area on the basketball court.

not true and pure opinion

[Snooch]

He'd probably be the best option at starting PF if he were on this team right now.

Fit and skill sets, it's not a straight up this player vs that player situation.

marvin would look great here imo.

good help defender, solid rebounder and range well out to three point line.

an ideal pf to set between carrol and JV.

And i think you could get him cheap as Charlotte appears enamoured with Frank at pf for the future.

[Snooch]

He doesn't improve the team so what's the actual point? Plus Marvin is making 7M right now he's going to cost upwards of $10M per year at least and possibly a lot more if he plays well in the playoffs.

This 2 for 1 argument honestly doesn't fly. You're locking yourself into just as much long-term salary as you would be by signing DeRozan and not improving the team. Additionally you're spending the money on role players who will likely have next to no residual value in a trade for the life of their deal. I just don't see the point at all.

People are talking about not wanting to re-sign DeRozan because it would fuck our flexibility, then suggesting using the flexibility we'd get from not re-signing DeRozan on mediocre players that get us nowhere.

EDIT: This isn't Rudy Gay who was chucking to his heart's content on a bad contract and had serious conflict with both Lowry and DeMar on the court. DeRozan is playing at an all-star level right now, I cannot imagine a situation in which Masai lets him walk to sign Aaron Affalo and Marvin Williams (just an example, not meant to be taken as the only option or literally). If Durant or Horford is on the table (assuming they'd be cool with jettisoning DD instead of looking for an alternative --- unlikely imo but that's a different debate), then sure. But not for +30 role players who do nothing to make us better.

Like what threshold are we trying to hit here? We're already a ~50 win team. Swapping out DD for 3+D and rebounding isn't going to push us to 60 and a conference final. The talent isn't there.

whole lot of nothing to debate that you dont think something can work, when there is absolutely no reason or evidence to support your claim.

[Snooch]

Letting DD walk and signing 2 fringe starters isn't going to make the team better I'm sorry to say. DD's not the one holding us back from title contention, a lack of a superstar and competent coaching is.

Oh also btw, Masai demonstrated last year that he's willing to move away non-core players to secure a free agent. We pursued Wesley Matthews when we didn't have enough cap space to actually sign him which meant someone like 2Pat was going to have to be moved (DD was actively involved in recruiting so it obviously wasn't him).

If it comes down to going after Durant I expect guys like Ross, Carroll, 2Pat etc to be shipped off before allowing DD to walk.

its is dd, as well as the others.

DD will never be a superstar, which you say is the problem over and over and over and over and over and over and over again(which more than a few would disagree with) but you fail to grasp any sound logic showing how retaining demars services prevents team from aquiring said superstar

[Snooch]

again,

Demar signing a 100 million dollar deal over 5 years (20 million per) and 100 million dollar over 4 years(25 million) in its most simplistic way of looking at it may seem fair, but it isnt as it would allow an idividual to invest 5 million over 4 years, 5 million over 3 years, 5 million over 2 years and 5 million over 1 year....EXTRA!

thats alot of investment earnings.......ALOT

[Wild-ling#1]

Seems to me like we're so quickly forgetting the pain of not being able to hold on to any All Star talent we draft/develop that we're willing to let the first guy who might actually stay ... walk.

We didn't develop Lowry ... but he stayed to be be part of an exciting "core", including DeMar.

We've already got value with JV and Lowry. Why not keep our one other (willing) $20M+ guy and continue to acquire value through all the draft/trade options still available ... including the possibility of trading DeMar down the road?

[Snooch]

Seems to me like we're so quickly forgetting the pain of not being able to hold on to any All Star talent we draft/develop that we're willing to let the first guy who might actually stay ... walk.

We didn't develop Lowry ... but he stayed to be be part of an exciting "core", including DeMar.

We've got already got value with JV and Lowry. Why not keep our one other (willing) $20M+ guy and continue to acquire value through all the draft/trade options still available ... including the possibility of trading DeMar down the road?

sure including demar.....not exclusively demar.

Lowry wants to win, makes no difference who with

[Axel]

Why not keep our one other (willing) $20M+ guy and continue to acquire value through all the draft/trade options still available ... including the possibility of trading DeMar down the road?

I don't think Lowry's championship window is that big. We need to maximize the fit of talent around him and overpaying anyone will limit what we can do. DD is fine to keep but it's the cost that is the biggest problem. DD is also a prime overpay candidate because of his usage. He's been given maximum opportunity (high usage, minimal accountability or defence required). He isn't a premier talent but he will likely get paid like one because of the market.

Overpaying anyone hurts the team right now. We simply can't afford a big miss.

[hotfuzz]

Seems to me like we're so quickly forgetting the pain of not being able to hold on to any All Star talent we draft/develop that we're willing to let the first guy who might actually stay ... walk.

We didn't develop Lowry ... but he stayed to be be part of an exciting "core", including DeMar.

We've already got value with JV and Lowry. Why not keep our one other (willing) $20M+ guy and continue to acquire value through all the draft/trade options still available ... including the possibility of trading DeMar down the road?

Because he'll cost a lot and we'll be stuck in mediocrity.