Everything Derozan

[JWash]

I think that's exactly what he means, i.e., the OKC-Harden, GSW-Iggy, SAS-Manu type role. Strictly to balance out the offence. Demar's a starter in this league, nobody can even question that. But if DD was willing to swallow his pride and volunteer to go to the bench, that would open up so many options for the team. Probably help ball movement with the starters too.

It would be similar to the Iggy for Barnes swap, when Barnes was gifted the starter's role by Kerr after regressing badly under Mark Jackson. I wouldn't mind seeing if that could work for the Raps.

Ok the tone of it just made it seem like that's not what he meant, however if that is what he meant my mistake.

I don't think that would work for the Raps though. The reason teams move players of that level to the bench is because whatever they excel at is somewhat redundant in the starting lineup. Maybe if a Durant was here that might make sense, but moving DD to the bench to start Ross doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us. It's not like there's a bevy of scorers in the starting 5.

[Snooch]

Ya think? lol.

Let's see:

- Averaging 22/4/4 this year
- Top 10 scorer in the league
- All Star caliber player
- Raps best scorer/go to guy in the clutch
- One of the leaders of the team
- One of best player in franchise history
- 26 years old

But let him walk in the summer and let's sign 2 mediocre players. Let's sign Gerald Henderson. That would make us a better team. Lol. Come on man. Some of the stuff that's on this thread are pure comedy. Pure comedy.

I'm not even gonna bother to respond. I feel stupid just by reading some of the stuff that's in here. I really hope some of you guys here are trolling lol if not...yikes.

all of that is replaceable.

especially if you are spreading it out over more than 1 player

[Axel]

I think that's exactly what he means, i.e., the OKC-Harden, GSW-Iggy, SAS-Manu type role. Strictly to balance out the offence. Demar's a starter in this league, nobody can even question that. But if DD was willing to swallow his pride and volunteer to go to the bench, that would open up so many options for the team. Probably help ball movement with the starters too.

It would be similar to the Iggy for Barnes swap, when Barnes was gifted the starter's role by Kerr after regressing badly under Mark Jackson. I wouldn't mind seeing if that could work for the Raps.

Exactly.

Build this team with a 4 out offence with JV inside, and then let DD play his game off the bench. The starting unit would use lots of ball movement (inside out, swings) to get good looks from deep and JV in good position.

When JV comes out, we are likely running out a significantly less gifted inside player (Bebe or Biyombo couldn't play 4out), so having a ball dominant scorer who can score off ball screens and get to the line would allow those centers to be effective players on offence and focus on D while getting to the line would slow down the game, maximizing the rest period with minimum game clock.

Maximizes the skills of the guys we have.

[Axel]

Ya think? lol.

Let's see:

- Averaging 22/4/4 this year
- Top 10 scorer in the league
- All Star caliber player
- Raps best scorer/go to guy in the clutch
- One of the leaders of the team
- One of best player in franchise history
- 26 years old

But let him walk in the summer and let's sign 2 mediocre players. Let's sign Gerald Henderson. That would make us a better team. Lol. Come on man. Some of the stuff that's on this thread are pure comedy. Pure comedy.

I'm not even gonna bother to respond. I feel stupid just by reading some of the stuff that's in here. I really hope some of you guys here are trolling lol if not...yikes.

So you want to continue to build the offence around Demar? Cause that is a treadmill if I ever saw one.

Or wait, maybe the plan is to pay DD for his production so far and then hope to land better players and move DD to a secondary scoring role, while paying him at top scoring role rate.

Sorry for wanting to pay DD for his production level of the next 4 years instead of the last 3. Classic overpay situation; secondary player playing a primary player's role.

[JWash]

So you want to continue to build the offence around Demar? Cause that is a treadmill if I ever saw one.

Or wait, maybe the plan is to pay DD for his production so far and then hope to land better players and move DD to a secondary scoring role, while paying him at top scoring role rate.

Sorry for wanting to pay DD for his production level of the next 4 years instead of the last 3. Classic overpay situation; secondary player playing a primary player's role.

Nobody is suggesting building the offense around DeMar.

People take issue the suggestion you made that replacing him with two role players significantly improves the team.

[Axel]

Nobody is suggesting building the offense around DeMar.

People take issue the suggestion you made that replacing him with two role players significantly improves the team.

But they are willing to pay him as if the offence is (continued to be) built around him.

People take issue with any suggestion that the team can be better without him.

Look at the Pistons. We have the personnel to run something similar and have more talent then them. They are only a half game back of us.

[Axel]

And at least I have a plan. Half the plans with keeping DD are simply "hope we get better".

If you are going to bother criticizing an opinion, should at least come up with an idea (TRex?).

[JWash]

But they are willing to pay him as if the offence is (continued to be) built around him.

People take issue with any suggestion that the team can be better without him.

Look at the Pistons. We have the personnel to run something similar and have more talent then them. They are only a half game back of us.

No. Obviously there are ways for the team to be better without DD but not by replacing him with replacement level players like you suggested. The logic there is just very flawed.

I'm not even sure how you're using Detroit as an example. They're ranked 21st in oRTG and 26th in AST/G. This is the offense you want to emulate?

[JWash]

And at least I have a plan. Half the plans with keeping DD are simply "hope we get better".

If you are going to bother criticizing an opinion, should at least come up with an idea (TRex?).

It's more than hope we get better. Retain our best assets and continue to explore options to improve via free agency or trade. Perhaps the flexibility will be limited in 2016 (however sign and trades are always an option, as are salary dumps with MANY teams likely needing moves to hit the ~$80M cap floor). But in 2017, flexibility would be back even with DD signed to a large contract.

I don't see how "jettison one of our best assets, replace with two significantly worse ones and assume the team gets better" is a great strategy either.

[special1]

Exactly.

Build this team with a 4 out offence with JV inside, and then let DD play his game off the bench. The starting unit would use lots of ball movement (inside out, swings) to get good looks from deep and JV in good position.

When JV comes out, we are likely running out a significantly less gifted inside player (Bebe or Biyombo couldn't play 4out), so having a ball dominant scorer who can score off ball screens and get to the line would allow those centers to be effective players on offence and focus on D while getting to the line would slow down the game, maximizing the rest period with minimum game clock.

Maximizes the skills of the guys we have.

Theoretically speaking of course...

Although I completely disagree with your coming off the bench idea, it's still pretty interesting.

My problem with your idea is that you assume there's a system that will transform our current players into ball moving savants. Like it's all so easy. Basketball IQ plays a huge part.... Not sure we even have enough of it.

Sure, we can try. But, how does this maximize the skills of the guys we have?

There is no evidence that JV is even capable of handling this sort of system.

Who are the other 4 guys?


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[Axel]

No. Obviously there are ways for the team to be better without DD but not by replacing him with replacement level players like you suggested. The logic there is just very flawed.

I'm not even sure how you're using Detroit as an example. They're ranked 21st in oRTG and 26th in AST/G. This is the offense you want to emulate?

They lack the talent to properly execute. Jackson can't hit the three at PG, we have Lowry. Their stretch 4 has been Marcus Morris who is a worse shooter than PPatt. Our personnel fits better than theirs for the offence. And despite their flawed roster, they are half game back of us.

This is really one of those situations where if you don't watch the game, you won't understand. JV's motor and post skills are a great fit. Lowry's shooting and driving is a great fit. Carroll's cutting and shooting is a great fit. Patterson's shooting fits at the PF

[Axel]

Theoretically speaking of course...

Although I completely disagree with your coming off the bench idea, it's still pretty interesting.

My problem with your idea is that you assume there's a system that will transform our current players into ball moving savants. Like it's all so easy. Basketball IQ plays a huge part.... Not sure we even have enough of it.

Sure, we can try. But, how does this maximize the skills of the guys we have?

There is no evidence that JV is even capable of handling this sort of system.

Who are the other 4 guys?


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JV is a better interior scorer than Drummond. JV has a great motor (certainly equal to Drummond). No reason to expect him not to fulfill that role.

Lowry
CoJo
Carroll
Patterson
Ross

All are well suited for this offence. And that's just the guys currently on the roster. Don't know about Bruno, Wright, or Powell yet. Biyombo isn't suited for any offence but Bebe can excel in PnR heavy offence, same with Demar - both coming off the bench.

This isn't as simple a "plug and play" but neither is basketball.

[Axel]

I don't see how "jettison one of our best assets, replace with two significantly worse ones and assume the team gets better" is a great strategy either.

Also safe to say that you don't see any realistic scenario that moves us on from Demar as improving the team.

Best bet is to trade DD for a capable stretch 4 and a SG prospect who can shoot. The bench scorers role can be filled via other means. But that would mean giving up the Durant dream so we play risky.

[JWash]

Also safe to say that you don't see any realistic scenario that moves us on from Demar as improving the team.

Best bet is to trade DD for a capable stretch 4 and a SG prospect who can shoot. The bench scorers role can be filled via other means. But that would mean giving up the Durant dream so we play risky.

How is that safe to say? If we let DeMar walk to sign Horford or KD I'd say the team has definitely improved.

I just don't believe 2 role players replacing DD is gonna make us better. Replacing him with superior talent? Hell yeah.

[Axel]

How is that safe to say? If we let DeMar walk to sign Horford or KD I'd say the team has definitely improved.

I just don't believe 2 role players replacing DD is gonna make us better. Replacing him with superior talent? Hell yeah.

And short of long shot free agent scenarios, you got nothing.

You want to make this a simple Demar vs this guy and/or that guy, but it doesn't work that way. Fit, scheme etc are important when discussing less than elite talent.