Everything Derozan

[Barolt]

I think that what this comes down to is you're fine with comparing DeMar to old Dwyane Wade if the point is "DeMar sucks" but you hate comparing DeMar to old Paul Pierce if the point is "he could be productive post-30."

I could easily tear into your Wade comparison with the same vigor you're giving the Pierce comparison. Easily.

Honestly, I completely hate the Pierce comparison for DeMar.

Pierce in his 30s took at least 30% of his shots from 3pt range in all but 2 seasons(29% and 25%), and never took more than 20% of his 3PTA from the corners. Definitely not someone DeMar should emulate. Does anyone honestly think DeMar will ever be a player who should generate 25% of his offense on above the break 3s?

[Snooch]

I think that what this comes down to is you're fine with comparing DeMar to old Dwyane Wade if the point is "DeMar sucks" but you hate comparing DeMar to old Paul Pierce if the point is "he could be productive post-30."

No, I compared Demar to wade psychically and athletically and you compared playing styles to that of Pierce..

If you wanted to say that demar could become better at three point shooting, and improve his post up play, become a better defender, and become physically stronger then he could potentially have a good career will into his thirties.

You brought pierces name into it.

You made the correlation between the two. If you had no intent on doing that you shouldnt have used his name.

[S.R.]

Honestly, I completely hate the Pierce comparison for DeMar.

Pierce in his 30s took at least 30% of his shots from 3pt range in all but 2 seasons(29% and 25%), and never took more than 20% of his 3PTA from the corners. Definitely not someone DeMar should emulate. Does anyone honestly think DeMar will ever be a player who should generate 25% of his offense on above the break 3s?

No, corner 3's at best, but 3 point shooting obviously being a massive difference.

Let me try to articulate what I was thinking a different way - clearly there are some big differences in their games when you dig into specifics, and Pierce had a much, much better career. I'm thinking of how Pierce evolved and maintained productivity as he aged by being smart, working hard (cliche but true), and adapting as his body changed. I think DeMar can do that. He's showing this season he may be smarter about basketball than we thought (or just becoming so now), he's also showing that he's able to put in the work to evolve and adapt year over year. I just don't see him fading away like some other 20 ppg guards who depended on their athleticism. I see him working and evolving and leveraging his size and skills to continue to be productive as a vet, like Pierce did.

[S.R.]

No, I compared Demar to wade psychically and athletically and you compared playing styles to that of Pierce..

If you wanted to say that demar could become better at three point shooting, and improve his post up play, become a better defender, and become physically stronger then he could potentially have a good career will into his thirties.

You brought pierces name into it.

You made the correlation between the two. If you had no intent on doing that you shouldnt have used his name.

You know what's funny, old Wade is actually pretty comparable to present DeMar, so I'll eat some crow on that one. Wade last year vs. DeMar this year: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Wade's drop off looks bad because he used to be capable of 30 ppg and MVP votes. Objectively, body-breaking-down Dwyane Wade is about as good as peaking DeMar. (Health being a big difference. Wade can't give you a full season anymore.)

[Eliza]

You know what's funny, old Wade is actually pretty comparable to present DeMar, so I'll eat some crow on that one. Wade last year vs. DeMar this year: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Wade's drop off looks bad because he used to be capable of 30 ppg and MVP votes. Objectively, body-breaking-down Dwyane Wade is about as good as peaking DeMar. (Health being a big difference. Wade can't give you a full season anymore.)

He almost never has given a full season. Comedy relief Snooch brought Wade into the conversation I believe, in reference to his prediction that DeMar would be broken down in 3-4 years, lmao. Perhaps he forgets that Wade played a breakneck, bang with the big boys style, particularly in his early years that beat his body up. Quote from Draftexpress in 2008: " Takes a ridiculous amount of hard fouls. Gets thrown to the ground more than probably any player in the League." In Wades first 5 seasons, games missed: 21,5,7,31,31 totaling 95 games. DeMar's first 5 seasons, games missed: 5,0,0,0,3 totaling 8 games.

There's no comparison to the beating Wade's body has taken to what DeMar's has taken, but Snooch knows DeMar will break down by 29-30 years old, using Wade as comparison, lmao.

[LJ2]

Are you suggesting that you would trade JV for Thad Young to make things work better with DD?

Young can't spread the floor, might as well start JJ.

Giannis, Harris, Porter - none of them are PF options really that would work better next to DD than JV.

Randle's is about 10 feet - how is that better?

None of these guys would fit any better than JV.

Obviously not a straight up trade Axel. We'd have to get more assets out of a JV exchange. But How would a line up of KL, DD, DC, TY and maybe Biz look? Pretty long, athletic and formidable defensively.

I disagree that Giannis, Harris and Porter can't play PF, and think any of them could play next to DD.

I might be wrong, but I think your perspective is that you are looking at the names suggested and thinking those guys are not better than JV, at what JV does well. However my point is that JV is good at what he does, but what he is good at is not what best fits this current system. Imo, those other guys mentioned could fit well into the system.

[KHD]

Obviously not a straight up trade Axel. We'd have to get more assets out of a JV exchange. But How would a line up of KL, DD, DC, TY and maybe Biz look? Pretty long, athletic and formidable defensively.

I disagree that Giannis, Harris and Porter can't play PF, and think any of them could play next to DD.

I might be wrong, but I think your perspective is that you are looking at the names suggested and thinking those guys are not better than JV, at what JV does well. However my point is that JV is good at what he does, but what he is good at is not what best fits this current system. Imo, those other guys mentioned could fit well into the system.

vomit-inducing idea there.

[Snooch]

He almost never has given a full season. Comedy relief Snooch brought Wade into the conversation I believe, in reference to his prediction that DeMar would be broken down in 3-4 years, lmao. Perhaps he forgets that Wade played a breakneck, bang with the big boys style, particularly in his early years that beat his body up. Quote from Draftexpress in 2008: " Takes a ridiculous amount of hard fouls. Gets thrown to the ground more than probably any player in the League." In Wades first 5 seasons, games missed: 21,5,7,31,31 totaling 95 games. DeMar's first 5 seasons, games missed: 5,0,0,0,3 totaling 8 games.

There's no comparison to the beating Wade's body has taken to what DeMar's has taken, but Snooch knows DeMar will break down by 29-30 years old, using Wade as comparison, lmao.

Actually I used about 6 or 7 guys, and in only a follow up post describing the beating one takes from consistantly drawing fouls did I use Wade as an example...and only in relation to ddrawing fouls being hard on the body. Which obviously you agree with as evidenced by your post.

Convenient that the other names I used as examples have all been ignored though.

[Snooch]

You know what's funny, old Wade is actually pretty comparable to present DeMar, so I'll eat some crow on that one. Wade last year vs. DeMar this year: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Wade's drop off looks bad because he used to be capable of 30 ppg and MVP votes. Objectively, body-breaking-down Dwyane Wade is about as good as peaking DeMar. (Health being a big difference. Wade can't give you a full season anymore.)

I brought up wade to show the damage that a persons body takes from playing a draw the foul tyope of game....not as a comparision between the two.

Wade drew shitloads of fouls and has a battered body because of it.....demar draws alot of fouls and most likely will get a beat up body as a result.

[3inthekeon]

Obviously not a straight up trade Axel. We'd have to get more assets out of a JV exchange. But How would a line up of KL, DD, DC, TY and maybe Biz look? Pretty long, athletic and formidable defensively.

I disagree that Giannis, Harris and Porter can't play PF, and think any of them could play next to DD.

I might be wrong, but I think your perspective is that you are looking at the names suggested and thinking those guys are not better than JV, at what JV does well. However my point is that JV is good at what he does, but what he is good at is not what best fits this current system. Imo, those other guys mentioned could fit well into the system.

Our offensive system is ISO heavy, which suits JV's post-up game about as well as any system around.

As for having Biz as a starting C - my god man..

[Eliza]

Actually I used about 6 or 7 guys, and in only a follow up post describing the beating one takes from consistantly drawing fouls did I use Wade as an example...and only in relation to ddrawing fouls being hard on the body. Which obviously you agree with as evidenced by your post.

Convenient that the other names I used as examples have all been ignored though.

So you see no difference in damage to the body, between drawing fouls from reach-ins and catching guards in the air, vs slamming into bigs and getting hammered to the floor. Okay

95 games missed vs 8 says different

[LJ2]

Our offensive system is ISO heavy, which suits JV's post-up game about as well as any system around.

As for having Biz as a starting C - my god man..

Biz, is a minor part of what I'm saying and not really the point of anything. In this system you could replace Biz with any clean up type of player. You want someone whose strength is defense and rebounding and as I mentioned earlier if that someone has a jump shot then it's a huge bonus.

It's an ISO heavy offense but they don't want a slow, ISO heavy offense.

[Snooch]

So you see no difference in damage to the body, between drawing fouls from reach-ins and catching guards in the air, vs slamming into bigs and getting hammered to the floor. Okay

95 games missed vs 8 says different

wade has drawn the same type of fouls as Demar, and Demar the same as what wade has.

[Mess]

I think in order to be a winning team that is neccessary.....but then that riounds back to having a player making what is shaping up to be pushing 30 million at that point in time playing a role that he is far overpaid for.

Like Iverson at the end of his career.

He'll only reach 30M a season if he signs a 5 year max contract - which I'm hoping won't be the case. But if that does happens then at the start of the final year of it he'd be 31 yrs old and would be starting his 12th season (Iverson was still scoring 30 at 31 yrs btw).

He's already going to cash in. Whatever contract he signs he'll be paid more than double what he's been making now. Maybe Masai can convince him to go 4 yrs at a slight discount and then when he's ready to sign his (possibly) last contract at 30 yrs old he'll be in a better position to negotiate - rather than being overpaid and underproducing coming off a max at 31.

[Axel]

Obviously not a straight up trade Axel. We'd have to get more assets out of a JV exchange. But How would a line up of KL, DD, DC, TY and maybe Biz look? Pretty long, athletic and formidable defensively.

I disagree that Giannis, Harris and Porter can't play PF, and think any of them could play next to DD.

I might be wrong, but I think your perspective is that you are looking at the names suggested and thinking those guys are not better than JV, at what JV does well. However my point is that JV is good at what he does, but what he is good at is not what best fits this current system. Imo, those other guys mentioned could fit well into the system.

That lineup looks pretty awful to be honest. Young is a terrible fit for our team. He needs good shooters around him to make space.

I understand exactly what you are trying to get at, but the point is that none of the players you have mentioned would fit any better than JV. With DD and KL dominating the ball, a catch and shoot flooring spreading PF who can rebounding would be a good fit, but other than Love, or KAT, there isn't a player in the league that would fill that role without dramatically lowering the team's overall talent. Brooklyn has zero assets to trade (no picks for years), so who you acquire from them is all you are getting. Giannis is way too thin for PF on a regular basis. Porter has done nothing to prove he can play PF and certainly wouldn't be worth moving JV for. Harris might work but certainly not better than JV does.

What style of player fits next to DD/KL better than an efficient post scoring C who rebounds? Maybe the stretch PF but none who are attainable are good enough.